Discussion of the feral horse hoof model -flaws in theory

https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/11-140

I wonder if this book is worth discussing-pertaining to improving domestic hoof health?

I agree with it's summary.

Is that what you meant

"................and Ovnicek9 studied the feet of
feral horses in the USA and suggested that the natural model was a solution to the poor foot health
issues of the modern domestic horse. The wild horse foot (Figure 1B) is claimed to have a very short
hoof wall which is heavily bevelled at the ground surface, a deep cup in the sole, strong upright heels

8,
and a squared off toe

11 with the break-over point set back towards the tip of a well developed frog 10.
It is suggested that the sole exhibits medial-lateral symmetry, the frog and sole have a large weightbearing
function

10,12 and the palmar surface of the distal phalanx is ground parallel............................."
***********************

I think the book has alot of truth in it about the feral hoof model not all it's cracked up to be. However, these statements are mis-quoted. " The palmer surface of the distal phalanx is to be ground parallel" has never been stated by those feral hoof model followers-a trim is to follow functional sole, but angle towards the heels a few mm. higher so that "ground parallel" is brought about with hoof impact, not while standing .

"Heavily beveled hoof wall, and the sole and frog having a large weightbearing function" was never written by USA feral hoof guideline. A heavily beveled hoof wall was used to begin correction on acute hoof flaring or initial trim. It was never stated that the sole and frog should have a large weightbearing function. It was stated that they should have passive weightbearing, the frog put into some contact with the ground. And the sole- actually cups itself, leaving a rim of sole along the outer edges that does make contact with the ground. And that edge on the sole can become quite wide and hard. It will share the weightbearing but not like the hoof wall supports. This cupping and hard rim of outer edge sole is all without cutting into functional sole, it forms by itself.


My thoughts?
Trimming a domestic horse to look like a feral horse is just plain stupid. If one wants the feral-look, then one should let their horse live a feral life-rough terrain and water and food miles apart. The important parts of the "feral horse" guidelines are not actually new ideas, farriers have practiced them for hundreds of years:
*Proper angles can be gotten by a number of different methods-farrier's preference.
*Medial-lateral balance/symmetry is not a new idea.
*There are many feral horses with correct hooves because those with poor or problem hooves have died off due to their poor hooves. Not because feral horses have wonderful hooves.
* Feral horse hoof models may be good for learning basic hoof care theory, but domestic horses are quite different than feral horses, and because of genetics, lack of work, different types of work, confirmation, and size, and environment, etc., correctness can be better learned from examples of good farriery.
* There are very few domestic hooves out there that can maintain themselves without intervention. Most horses do best with an intelligent farrier.
*Feral model hoof care books are a good way to begin learning about proper hoof care, it's an interesting subject and gets people to think about what's correct and what's not, and maybe seek more and more information to benefit their horse. Every owner has the responsibility of learning how to spot inadequate hoof care.

Thomas, I know you are more longwinded than this, so why not pick an issue in that book and discuss it in more that 10 words.

well as i've never been remotely interested in following the US feral horse model, I couldn't possibly produce anything of substance. I paid as much attention to the BUA literature as I do when one of my cows craps.

might be better to shove it under the nose of someone who was prone to believing the baloney.

I was thinking the same thing. I just don't care about the feral horse model. I'm just not all that impressed with a horse walking around enough to wear his foot down.

Well this book is about the feral horse model and why it doesn't work. I'm sure you all have your thoughts on certain statements that seem to you to be positive or negative. Maybe what people should be careful about reading about and how you've personally dealt with hooves with a feral design (LOL) that you've been called to do.

Well, education would come from farriers discussing what they think is wrong or not wrong about certain aspects. I can't believe most of you are not aware of those theories.

It has to be something of some importance for me to download something to view it. If you can get me a link or somehow post it on here I'd be happy to read it.

The only thing I know about that relates to the feral model is natural balance and from what I hear they changed things up again.

IMHO, this is a book about crippled horses developing a ridiculously high pain threshold because that is the only way to survive. How can this ever be used as a model to promote domestic hoof health and better management ?

I absolutely deny to use that mentality as a model of managing my horses.

How to deal with "feral model" hooves ? Just let them grow a bit, and shoe them if they ever need to do again whatever got them in that shape.

Actually if you ever get to shoe a very large draft horse, sometimes they need to shoe them one foot at a time because there frogs are too big and can bare the weight.

The problem with most of these things, IMO, is most people that write something have an agenda.

Just to add, this book is very anti feral hoof model, and describes alot of detrimental effects to feral horses, and what is really not true of the feral hoof model. Why else would I post it?

Yes, Karen, I do not disagree with you or doubt your intentions. But you would be surprised as to how many people nowadays would still "study" that book and try to analyse and memorise and apply the feral model despite the results of the study being anti-feral. The technique is simple. They skip everything else and just read the description of different rolls and angles that suit their theory. Then they will even quote the feral hooves observed in this study in their feral hoof websites, posting the pictures and simply omitting everything else.

So, my idea of promoting education and good hoof management is to point out one more time that the feral model is at least painful and more often than not simply fatal in the end and that there's more in that book than just pictures to copy and imitate.

The research article you've posted is something that was highlighted on Horseshoes.com and is something I posted in full on other forums and where there's been a prevelance for BUA's to espouse nonsense about feral horses being the model for domesticated sports, leisure or pleasure horses.

The way I see it the very suggestion by the BUA fraternity that a feral horse foot should be the benchmark model for foot health in horses was absurd and as such I was never going to get interested in going to spend time and effort doing any more than a skim read and for sure I wouldn't be giving it any credence or labelling it a "theory". IMO it was more of a fantasy and on a par with homeopathy.

In reality, never, as in not even once, has the efficacy of such nonsense as using a feral horse model been demonstrated to be beneficial under scientific methodology trial conditions. Hence when this Research published by the Australian Government and undertaken by Hampson and Pollitt came out in truth I just thought "no sh** Sherlock"

So it's a good document to shove under the noses who fell for the baloney but IMO as they're "belief driven" rather than "knowledge driven" it's a bit like trying to persuade someone who believes in ghosts or UFO's that it's just mythical imagining. Like knocking your head against a wall!

I'm not quite "getting" why some here think that link which takes you to research is in any way espousing any support of the feral model though. I can only presume they've not bothered opening it or reading it at all.

So several reasons for me why the feral horse model and all that "mustang roll" nonsense being "best" (or the benchmark) just didn't work for me.

1. I'd never seen any evidence that feral horses had been properly studied by anyone who had credence or self interest.

2. Optimising management of horses feet is about a lot more than how they're trimmed. Things like "footing", "distance travelled", what they eat, how much they eat also affect it. I don't know anyone who keeps a leisure, pleasure or sports horse as a brumby, mustang or similar such feral animal would exist.

3. Feral horses are NOT the bench mark for good care. You don't really need to do much reading or watching tv animal documentaries to know they have a hard life. They die of starvation, freeze to death, get ill, get lame and they don't all have great conformation and great footform. There's often ones at the back hobbling along.

4. Traditional farriery works well

I'm probably in a fairly unusual position in that for over 50 years I've been involved with riding AND driving horses, including high level competition - fei horse driving trials, concours d'elegance private driving, point to point and national hunt racing and eventing. I've also had horses that are NOT in competition. I have horses shod and unshod - currently 85%are shod. The ones I've got unshod are all either doing only very medium activity on good surface and they're in the main native breed ponies with feet that have adapted over centuries for our temperature climate. I happen to keep mine all out in big fields in herds and with a lot more turnout and movement than the majority of owners ever do. I've not had any problems at all with the trim or the shoeing protocol and my horses have all done very nicely with it thank you.

But it must be noted that they've all been done by a highly competent farrier that has most likely never done anything other than smirk at the notion of mustangs and feral horses being the benchmark!

ALL my competition horses have been shod and always will be shod. I personally don't have them shod because I believe in it as a dogma. Rather I keep domesticated horses in a temperate wet climate on grass pasture land. (not ferral horses in dry arid conditions)

So when they are shod its always hot shod - and always 4 feet - don't understand at all this 'daft' idea about only having fronts/backs shod - seems to me a horse has 4 feet and if it needs shoeing, then ALL 4 should be done so the horse is well balanced front and hind. I only have mine hot shod (never cold) because living in a wet place its better.

The work undertaken by my competition horses means that I want them properly and appropriately shod - my drivers have 'road studs', my jumpers have screw in studs and my racers have had a variety of racing plates suited to their requirements.

Its not because of a fundamental dogma or ignorance or something I read on the internet that I have them shod. Its because I know damn well that its best for them and if I didn't I'd never have done anything worthy of note with the horses I've owned and trained. If I thought they'd do anywhere near as well without shoes then trust me I'd take the shoes off every single one of them and save myself approximately £9,000 (approx $17,000) a year with my current stock.

I've never fancied removing the fencing round my large fields to enable my horses to go figure how to find food and water in the hope that they might wear their feet down so it's optimum. Seemed to me it was just common sense that was not the way it would ever be. Hence this study just confirmed what I knew and believed.

Is that long winded enough?

Well done, Tom!!!! Now, breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out. At your age, you gotta get all the air you can as often as you can.......

Having had the opportunity to several times read the information, I am struck by the fact that the final sentence not only sums it up but is totally stand alone. To wit: "Knowledge of wild horse and feral
horse feet provides useful supportive information but a feral horse foot model should not form the
basis for the footcare of the domestic horse."

Takes you right back to my first post here.

I can't believe these guys are so ignorant that they had to do all that research and study to figure that out. BUT, I can believe that bureaucrats are ignorant enough to fund such research and support its publication. Nice work if you can get it.

Tom, I don't see it that way at all. The way I see it is that they've actually done some qualitative research that helps with information relating to good standards of animal husbandry. I've no problem with that being funded and made available.

Much better than the misinformation peddled by those with something to sell! and who in effect are contributing to the precipitous decline in REAL knowledge. All this bovine excrement touted around about barefoot is best and mustang rolls are the gold standard are subtracting from the sum of knowledge and I for one weary at seeing the stuff touted as if it's got something to do with benchmark best practice standard.

It hasn't and it's no bad thing if the equestrian business and traditional high skilled farriery is supported with good research and facts.

I did start out reading Ramey. It was one of a very few books out there that explained something about hooves. But I got suspicious when these barefoot people started "curing" clubs, founder, etc-that they claim could not be sufficiently improved by shoes. The second thing that got me suspicious was that it was the same old hoof they used over and over again as an example. Is that the only example that backed up what they were saying?

The most positive thing that the Ramey book did for me was it led me to a farrier site, where there were hundreds of examples and explanations to learn by. A true education with years of facts. I did learn alot from "Barefoot" books-but then learned that a good farrier already practices them! Not new ideas, just written like they were new ideas.

Aside from being stated that barefoot is the best way to cure founder, club feet, and navicular, etc,
one of the things that started to bother me was the theory behind rasping away at flares on the outside of the hoof. Wouldn't weakening/thinning the walls just invite more flaring from impact pressure on a thinned wall that's already compromised?