http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...d_from_shoeing_horses_for_teaching_son_trade/ Hope this works as a link. If not it's my wifes fault,she helped. I read the article in the Farriers Joural. BTW, if link works then my wife had nothing to do w/ it.
Clint, Does your wife have a license to operate your computer? I hope you don't get arrested by the geek squad.
It has got a bit tricky, Over the years farriers have traditionally put lads under horses before the commencement of the apprenticeships to ascertain there aptitude for the job( that is and always has been illegal until indentures are signed). Just to clarify these are approved training farriers who were giving lads a job, not a horse shoer using cheap labor. The apprenticeship commences twice a year and it seamed reasonable to allow the candidate to take off shoes and clean out feet etc while waiting for the official start date of the apprenticeship. There were some that took the preverbial and had lads working for 18 months free of charge or cheap but they are the exception. As the cake from which we all feed from shrinks the other farriers in surounding areas will shop offending ATF's for misuse of the labour. The bigest risk in alowing pre apprentices under horses is if they get injured, you will be jumped on from a very great height if that happens. My experience is that it all used to be very relaxed and is now becoming very enforced, it is a mistake to not abide by the rules when the tide changes as they seem very intent on changing it.
Interesting. Maybe farriers could push for an "apprentice" permit from the Farriers Registration Council. He probably taught his sons well, and also taught them safety, but think of all the farriers that are poor teachers, and what they might produce. Do you think Europeans have more respect for their farriers and horses than we do? Does the majority of European horse owners want this protection in place for their horses? Thanks, Clint. Never realized there was a "flip side".
The farrier concerned knew very well that what he was doing was wrong and against the law over here. His son was not an apprentice farrier at all! Had he been then there wouldn't have been a problem providing he was under proper supervision. He'd flaunted the rules and got caught. http://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/News.asp?page=pressreleases&ID=163 I don't see that as a "flip side" at all. It's important for customers to know that the people they engage and pay to do a job are adequately trained and operating under the appropriate legislation. He wasn't. End of! Advanced Level Apprenticeship is the only route in Great Britain to become qualified as a registered farrier. Here it's absolutely recognised that a Farrier is a professional. A skilled craftsperson with a high level of knowledge who makes and fits shoes for horses’ feet according to the needs and welfare of the animal. It's acknowledge here that they have significant expertise and hence that's why they do the likes of working with veterinary surgeons and equine hospitals to provide corrective shoeing and surgical farriery. Roughly 100 apprentices are taken on in the industry every year, and competition for places is quite strong. I want protection and legislation in place and standards of training and I've never met anyone who owns a horse here that thinks that's a bad idea. It's been that way forever over here and it's totally accepted by most sane and sensible folks. Of course there will always be a few who think that it would be much nicer if they didn't have to adhere to legislative and regulatory requirements but tough!
Karen, A Farrier (not Government) ran system is what we need in the U.S. There should be some set of rules as to who is allowed to teach farriery. If we, as farriers, would put some type of system in place then we will be looked at as more professional. The vets used to be the town drunk, now they have turned that profession into an extremely well thought of field of study. If farriers had some sort of Formal teaching and training, we would be more respected as a Profession. Problem is that there are alot of farriers and hoof hacks out there that are making a living now without having to do anything to learn. Most of these people would not be able to pass the standard, so they will fight tooth and nail to keep it from ever being implemented. This very thread will probably stimulate quite a discussion that will not be in favor of Any regulation. Let me be clear, I am as Anti-Government as one can possibly get, but if Farriers don't come together and do this ourselves, then I feel that in the future we will be regulated by an entity that we do not want, like the government or the Vets. Now that is what I am afraid of.
I agree with you. The government has enough to control. I think there will always be hacks and those uninterested in an organization. But it's not a reason to not organize. Thomas , do the farriers have different grades in the UK system?
But that's the problem - I don't beleive you will ever get farriers to agree on a standard. And if they did agree on a standard who will certify that standard?
Mikel, There are already several farrier certification tests in place so that is a start. A FARRIER ran entity could be created to oversee Formal teaching and testing. It would not be an easy task, but it is possible. I think a standard kinda like the English's would be a good starting point. Different levels of achievement would allow one to be able to have apprentices and so on. I just think that Farriers should get the ball rolling instead of waiting for someone else to take control of OUR trade!
Rather than "grades" there's different levels. Starting with an approved apprentice. That's someone who in training, which is four years and two months in duration. Throughout their training, except when at college, apprentices work on behalf of their Approved Training Farrier (ATF) who is responsible for their supervision, quality of their work and their professional behaviour. The Farriery Act is such that Approved Apprentices are issued with a card for identification purposes. Owners may ask to see the card or check with the FRC office if they have any concerns. It's well known that farriery is a professional craft for which you have to be "competent at law". This is something we're quite familiar with over here. No different for say Electricians. Any work carried out by someone not "competent" is not approved and is illegal.The only people allowed to carry out farriery are: Registered Farriers, approved Farriery Apprentices or persons attending a Council approved course, Veterinary Surgeons, trainee Veterinary Surgeons working under the supervision of a Veterinary Surgeon or Registered Farriery, persons providing emergency first aid to a horse. Then there's
According to other reports, someone who is an official for the Farriers Registration Council (FRC) arrived at the farm and discovered the wrongdoing. Read More http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2012/02/27/ebchester-farrier-suspended-after-letting-son-remove-horse-s-shoes-61634-30415087/#ixzz1rR3imTTmBut it could have been absolutely anyone who knew what he was up to and knows that the regulations are there for a reason and not to be flaunted. The farm it happened on is a reasonably isolated farm in North Northumberland but there's a heck of a lot of equestrian establishments and a lot of horse knowledge there. There's 4 licenced farriers operating covering the Hexham area already. 2 who are Approved Training Farriers. The thing that the newspaper article doesn't mention though is that Mr Heslop is not on the register of Approved Training Farriers and so according to our regulation he is not qualified as competent to provide training and supervision to an apprentice. http://www.farrierytraining.co.uk/ The way it works though is they go to college first for a block release "entry to farriery" course and learn a lot of forge work and theory and THEN they go and find an ATF and get their apprenticeship. This young lady worked for me after she'd done her time at college and because for some time she struggled to find someone to take her on as an Apprentice. http://www.oatridge.ac.uk/news_and_events/news/have_ambition_will_travel http://www.berwick-advertiser.co.uk/news/becoming_a_farrier_is_no_mean_feat_says_dannie_1_1736623 Now when she worked for me she was of course most interested in anything to do with trimming and shoeing and was desperate to go in to the profession she'd started to train for. She was all over my farrier like a rash and even though he'd supported her by providing practical skills placement when she was at college and she used to go to him after work for training in forge work she quite simply was not permitted to do anything - even with him - on horses. He already had his apprentice and hence even though she'd done a year's course, she was not an apprentice UNTIL she got employed by an ATF. You'll see from the articles that she moved away to get her apprenticeship. Farriery over here is NOT "jobs for the boys" and nepotism! It's a skilled profession.
So who gets to decide whether or not a school teaches the T-Square hoof carpentry thing to farrier students? It's already used at the most highly respected schools in the US. Wouldn't those be the first to be certified to teach farrier superstition?
There was a time when the State of Illinois required farriers to be licensed. The testing program was designed by farriers and administered by farriers appointed to the position. And it was as corrupt as could be. And even if a national licensing program was established(sand IMO, it would have to be a national not state by state program) and some set of 'standards' for becoming licensed used, as many of us have experienced first hand when standing for various organization's certifications, the application of those standards is often not uniform and/or even-handed. From what I have seen and experienced, the best certification(licensing/registration) model was/is the one offered by the GPF. And you can readily see how many of those who clamor for a field exam or licensing or registration stood/stand for that set of exams.......... There was a time when I thought that licensing of farriers was going to happen. I have come to the sad realization that it will never happen in my lifetime.
Lclayton, Read Rick's post. Yes I know all about all the different certifications in the States. I have certified with the GPF because after taking the Danish certification I felt it was a good field test and required the farrier to observe a horse in movement, develope a shoeing protocal for that horse, shoe the horse to that protocal then be judge as to if you did what you said you would do. The biggest problem will be to get everyone to agree on a Standard. Then who will certify the Standard. Here in Denmark it is certified by their Board of Education. The test was given with a Horse Vet as the lead examiner along with two Master Farriers. Once your standards have been defined then it is all down hill from there. The worst thing is all the political crap going along with it. As Rick stated Illinois was corrupt as can be.
