So as not to further derail the Everyday Shoeing postings I have started this thread for infomation. I have not heard back from the Vet Tec folks from approx. 2 days ago,so I cannot report any newer info from them about the heat build up,dissapation etc .related to the products, tho I think it would be great to hear from them, that said I think I will invite them into any further conversation. Since David stated that he had a fondness of latex .........he didn t say what form or how he uses the material, I thought it best to suggest that he open another thread ,if he feels the need to expound/explain! But the allergy comment from the lady at Vet Tec has had me thinking.......... Bill Adams said that a clinician had a foal go south after an attachment of extensions, I have heard of such also but not witnessed that problem, David suggested that the heat build up may be significant with a thick build up and Gary said that he has put on some thick chunks and not had a problem................. i think i got the ideas put forward somewhat correct. Basically , we would,I think, be looking at a laminitic situation, and i could see that a foal with thin delicate walls would not be able to dissapate the the heat created by some chemical heat producing reaction that a thick walled full size horse might, also the same might go for a thin walled full size tbred. The allergy comment to me is interesting, though maybe discounted by Gary, Horses have been known to show laminitis, sometimes severe after bouts of allergic reactions, say hives, and as explained to me, and i m not a vet nor do i try to play one, due to histamine release........ today i had to give blood for my biannual physical, while waiting my turn i read a sign posted on the wall of the lab that said words to the effect..........please notify technician if you are allergic to latex or rubber, written in english and spanish..... didn t mean much to me till i was driving to my 1st stop when i thought about the superfast discussion.....don t know if it means anything, but often times folk i know wear gloves when applying the glues either urethane or acrylics, and they often touch the animals leg etc during the procedure.............. could/might the hoof capsule degeneration be an allergic reaction to the latex or rubber gloves used, that gets blamed on the glues because the glues were the last thing thought of when looking for the culprit ray
Big horse. Small gloves. Hair between glove and horse's skin. I think ol' Pokey will live through the procedure.
I witnessed a fatal allergic reaction of a high dollar Andalusian horse due to the make up of the needle/syringe used not the vaccine. This was the conclusion of the subsequent lawsuit.
A friend of mines wife is very allergic to latex. We were eating at a restaurant where the people preparing the food wore latex gloves. She had a reaction from eating food that had come in contact with latex. It is not beyond the realm of possibilities that a horse could have a reaction from being touched with latex gloves. That being said most disposable gloves now are nitril instead of latex. I have also witnessed a few allergic reactions in horses. One was from wormer and another was fatal from a reaction to an injection.
I probably do one every couple of years or so. One year I did 3 all in one spring. So not what I would call "many". I do a few "oldstock" every year. Regards
Surviving the procedure is one thing, surviving without hoof capsule might cause ol' Pokey a bit of discomfort! Not to mention a bit of distress to all involved...........if that problem was related to the glue, latex, fly spray etc. . And if it could, or be perceived to have been preventable....... well you can fill in the rest. Ray
Since reading this thread about the damage heat can do with these products we use , (vettec, eqiuilox, ) it gets me thinking about the sigafoo's shoe and the quix shoe, There have been thousands and thousands of those applied where most of the hoof is encased in either product and I have never heard of a problem from it. Could it be mainly a problem with foals because the hoof is so thin at that time?
now we are getting there Dave , where have these 1000s of quix shoes been applied then ? there can be major problems with all glu ons with over dressing feet , resections etc if the rules are applied ,
Farriers (all humans really) seem to be prone to forming conclusions from the results of one experiment or even from hearsay of somebody else's experience without having done the work to assess the variables, form a baseline, or establish a control group. Quixshoe is done with Adhere, not Superfast. The slower setting polymer has a lower peak exothermic heat index. Sigafoos Shoe has a significant about of aramid fiber mass to absorb the heat from the PMMA. IMO, the highest "probability" for "potential" problems arises when Superfast is used by itself to build large foal extensions as opposed to just gluing on a plastic cuff. In that situation the glue mass can be very large relative to the hoof mass, AND the faster setting polymer also has a higher peak exothermic index. If the potential for heat damage to the lamina actually exists, this would be the most likely combination of variables where it may possibly happen. If it did I would expect that the results of the damage would manifest with obvious symptoms immediately, not after a few days or weeks. If somebody told me that they did a Superfast foal extension and 3 days later the foal sloughed its hoof, but on the day the extensions were applied the foal was walking fine on the extensions, I would call bullshit on the conclusion that the hoof sloughing had anything to do with heat damage. I remain skeptical of hearsay claims of catastrophic laminar failure due to exothermic heat from using any of the commercially available polymers. I believe Pat Rilley did some tests on foal hooves to determine how much heat is conducted from outside the hoof to the lamina and found out that the horn is a remarkably good insulator. But even that is hearsay because Pat didn't say what the conditions and constraints were for his experiment.
foals tell you pretty damn quick when they feel the heat , make sure you have some old rasps handy to remove it quickly
I meant 1ooo;s combined between the Sigafoo's and the quix shoes. Derick Poupard (didn't spell his name right) claims to have done hundreds of quix shoes over in Dubi. I have some moulds and I have done them with both Adhere and Superfast . the Superfast shoe stood up better then the Adhere ones. I have a coulpe Quix shoe moulds for sale if anyone is interested!!
* Chris, would you explain some of the major problems that you mentioned? please leave out the pictures of David and his latex fantasies. thanks Ray
