Interview with a 25 year Veteran of showing TWH

Mr. B has been involved in TWH's , breeding and showing from 25 years back. He never got involved with the Big Lick horses that were shown padded up , or soring because of the pain involved.. .

KF (me): How widespread is soring or any inhumane practice with the same intent?

Mr.B.: All Big Lick trainers know how to do soring. Some are commonly known as "chemical trainers". It's so common that it's thought of as "just another training tool". No one gives it a second thought.

KF: How many trainers of Big Lick horses actually use those methods?

Mr.B. : It's estimated to be about 60% of Big Lick trainers who use soring. But Big Lick shows makeup for only 10% of TWH shows. The rest are in regular or somewhat heavier grades of shoes. However, soring is not only used on Big Lick horses, it's also used in the lower classes, but not to the same extent.

KF: What do owners/trainers of Big Lick horses that don't practice it think of those involved in soring? Don't they report it?

Mr.B :Well, since the TWH association polices it's own competitors/trainers with DQP's,-that may own these horses, there isn't really anyone to tell. It's hard to come up with the evidence.

KF: What's a DQP?

Mr.B. : It's a Designated Qualified Person. It used to be vetinarians only, but now there can be 100's of DQP's working under a vet. These DQP's are chosen by the TWH association. I called the association to become one years back, but was not allowed. They will not allow outside agencies to inspect horses for soring.

KF: What happens when a DQP comes to the show, what do the people with sored horses do?

Mr.B : They pack up and leave. I've seen a show where 1/2 the Big Lick contestants packed up and left. I've also seen 100% of the contestants leave when a Federal DQP has shown up. Other DQP's have looked the other way, maybe because they own or breed Big Lick horses.

KF: What is gingering?

Mr.B: It's used anally to make a horse really tuck under. But it's used on alot of breeds.

KF: So how can we put an end to something like soring?

Mr.B: The big show is "Celebration" annually. We've seen one sponsor (Pepsi) pull their sponsorship. If one other large sponsor pulled their sponsorship, it would be the end of Big Licks showing at "Celebration". That's where the big money is won.

KF: Thankyou Mr.B.

THIS MAN IS NOT A FARRIER, AND HAS NOT SHOWN TWH FOR 25 YEARS, HE HAS SHOWN AND BEEN INVOLVED IN TRAINING AND BREEDING AS WELL. HE'S PRETTY OLD NOW, SO NOW HE PUTS ON SMALL SHOWS FOR THE GAITED HORSES IN THE AREA. HE'S NEVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH BIG LICK HORSES OR SORING. HIS ANSWERS ARE PURELY HIS EDUCATED GUESS.

Anyone seen a list of their sponsors? We can all write and or call the sponsors.

A writer named Jim Zumbo referred to AR-15's (semi auto version of an M-16, the issued weapon for American armed forces) as terrorist rifles. A letter writing campaign cost the magazine he wrote for a ton of money and sponsors, and he lost his job, his T.V. show, as well as a bunch of endorsement deals.

My only thought was "how horrible " someone shod the same breed of horses for 25 year!

my thoughta were that the appropriate challenging questions weren't asked!

that's just a load of superficial placating crap!

It says 25 years of SHOWING not Shoeing????

The man she is speaking to would beat the tar out of any one that dared hurt a horse of his with the soring crap. SO no need to interrogate him Thomas. He is as sick of it as the next person.

Well look at Tiger losing Nike-a big big blow. How many kids idolized him?

no, didn't shoe, he was involved in showing, breeding , training, etc of anything but padded horses. He's not a farrier.

See I'm missing something ...just earlier yall swore to be damn that anyone showing these horses was doing something that's no good ...but now this guy is the oooonnnnlllyyy guy in all of the walking horse world.. I have zero issues of people standing up and pointing out the wrongs but saying sorein is done by all is just not true...we never hear anything about the horses that are treated like kings ...let me assure you they are out there...but those storys don't never get told because they is no shock factor ..no drama.. in the other thread it was even mentioned that it was from the slave days ...99% of black uys I have ever shod for was into walking horses... They love them ..its not hate its our past no matter how disturbing or wrong it was its in the past..much like the people who do civil war reacting..here we don't see it as hate ...only the outsiders do.. unless you have delt with it or bbeen around it you are just going off what someone told you or what you seen on tv..or YouTube.. the south has a lot of traditions and walking horses is one of those..not all abuse horses your just not gonna hear about those..

Thomas, I did the best I could since I don't interview for a living. I don't think it's placating, just an interview with a man who's been involved with TWH for 25 years, in all aspects but showing padded horses, and soring.

If you make a list of questions , I can certainly ask him again for an interview; just what he's witnessed himself, or a very educated opinion from someone who's been in the business of TWH.

Not showing alone, training, caring, and running a show barn. Not shoeing.

How many aspects of showing twh do not included any heavy shod horses only flat shod ...name the classes..and how many are per show..

I find it sad someone felt with it for 25 years and openly says abuse was going on and stood by and did nothing..nothing at all ..even kept showing supporting the sport..he along with the farriers that was pointed out in the vids need to be just as liable..

Travis, this is why I interviewed this man. I wanted to find out how many out of how many do this: AN EDUCATED OPINION
Answer was from a man who has been involved in TWH's in all aspects but padded horses.
His truly educated opinion was
60% of Big Lick trainers are using soring/chemicals . Only 10% at most of any TWH show is classes for Big Lick horses. Most Big Lick horses do attend the "Celebration" , which is the big money show. The majority of TWH shows do not contain soring, , but not all horses sored are big lick horses. It has been filtering down thru lower levels.

Are you in the understanding that any and all twh in heavy shod are (big lick)..is that ur understanding..

No one to tell or care.
Many judges own these horses, and well as the DQP's.
DQP's are picked by the TWH association and are a member of it.
People with Big Lick horses have alot of money and alot of pockets to pad.
Whistle blowers are going to pi$$ off alot of people , not only the owners or trainers, but higher up
The whistle blowers will have no reason to show anymore-they will never win.

Mr. B. did the only thing he could. He tried to apply to the association to be a DQP, and was turned down-they only hire from the inside. He then tried to be an independent agent, and the association told him that they would not allow outside agencies to to the inspections. There are some Federal DQP's that do inspections, but very very few. If they show up, there are an awful lot, if not most that withdraw from the class and go home.

Out of shows, only 10% of classes at a show for TWH are big lick classes. Out of that 10%, 60% are sored, as per Mr.B. I, myself, do not know how many different classes there are besides that. I can ask him.

I said it earlier I've a problem with folks condoning or contributing or enabling an activity that is SO widespread.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution and I'd be wanting to understand why someone who is participating in something like this where abuse is common place thinks it's o.k. For sure I'd want to challenge ..... NOT interrogate!

60% of trainers doing something so abhorrant and cruel to cause suffering isn't typical by any means.

In the other thread it was generally agreed that it was wrong for someone to stand by (farrier in that case) while a horse was being abused. But heck now it's suggested that the "interview" was placating and superficial and it's wrong to even ask more pertinent and challenging questions.

The questions to be asked are:

Why do you take part in something where cruelty is so prevalent?

How do you train your horse to lift it's legs way up under it's chin?

What weighted packages are you using to achieve that movement?

What have you done to stop such widespread cruelty?

How many horses shown in those classes have shoes that are unweighted?

How many people have you reported to the Federal DQP? ( Or even told that they'd packed up and gone? )

What calls/reports have you made to formal investigators with statutory authority to monitor animal welfare and prosecute cruelty?

If none, then why not.... as in why the heck are you part of the problem?

Mr. B. has been involved in all aspects of TWH's except for Big Lick horses. His opinion is an educated opinion based on what he has seen, heard, discussed, but never done.

I think his opinion gives a valid idea of how prevalent it is, and why it still happens. No point in arguing his opinion, but I can ask him more questions.

Is they a study of those numbers are those just best guess..educated guess by Mr B.. and is some reason mr B does not wanna use his name...imho it a bit unfair for someone hide they name and put out tight numbers of abuse.. and not let us know how those numbers where found...I'm in no way defending the actions of some white trash that sore and I will say it was a big issue but I will also say they have made big strides in stoping some of the issues..and they still have work to do..but to say all do it is not rue..