Interview with a 25 year Veteran of showing TWH

Answered above, he did what he could-tried to be a DQP, is not a member of a very small closed group of Big Lick owners/trainers, too many padded pockets, or other people involved that can lose their livelihood to get admission from or proof. ABC had noted proof was hard to get.

And some DO get caught.

Karen, I appreciate your efforts.
It's too bad a couple of ill mannered ****** think it's their job to crucify you for not asking the questions they want. Actually, most of their questions WERE answered; they were just too damn dumb to understand what you wrote and LOOK for the answers in your post.
It's certainly understandable why the person you interviewed was not beaten and grilled mercilessly as suggested for taking the time to speak with you.

I don't know of any study, it will be worthwhile for me or anyone to find one. But, too, aside from hearsay, and people involved not wanting it known , wouldn't it be just an educated guess as well?

This was informal. There's no reason to use his name. He's in his 70's and doesn't trust anyone on the internet.

The numbers are purely an educated guess , just as any opinion would be an educated guess at this point. Maybe I should go back and edit the interview to include IMO. #'S were found? No a ballpark figure by someone who has had access to alot of the information about how the system works. Yes, they have made big strides in stopping the issue, but not enough especially when the policing is done by those who own/breed/show/potential buyers/ judges, etc.
No one said ALL do it. Big Lick trainers all KNOW how to do it. 60% (estimate) of the horses in the ring are sored, 10% (possible to check) of the classes at a show are for Big Lick horses.
It would certainly be nice to know HOW MANY Big Lick horses there are showing, and HOW MANY out of that number are sored.

No. Big Lick I think are the ones where they where the pads and big clunky things (?). Most likely weighted.
Heavy shod is not a great thing and I have no idea if they are sored as well. Mr. B. has noted that soring is used to a very small extent in the lower classes, such as heavy shod. (Opinion)

None of anything in this thread is my opinion-I know nothing about soring except from that newsclip and small bits of information
It would be much appreciated for anyone else to find a better or more valid opinion than this one. This is only one. He was a good one to interview.

Karen how do you guys feel about saddle breeds and Arabs that are heavy shod...I'm trying to figure if its the Shoeing that draws fire or the soreing alone..

According to Mr. B. , soring causes alot of pain. The other thing he mentioned is with those bands that go across the top of the hoof to hold the shoe on, someone drills a hole in the hoof, and puts the band and a nail under it, and right before they go into the ring, they tighten the band. I would think soring would be the most used (IMO), I don't know anything about weights allowed, and I would hate any horse to go thru the pain, it doesn't matter if it's a TWH or any breed. IMO

Mr Burton I bet has put thousands of bands on ..let's ask him how many he has hooked to the hoof..and let's ask him on how and when they are pulled tight ...and has he ever found a nail in or under the band in the hoof when he come back for a reset..

Also like to add ..what soreing that is left going on I would think they have got way more clever than soreing in the open where someone could very easy question...because anyone I know does not sore and will raise some hell if they even think it has gone on...the will and have called for inspection on the spot..even if its just for a blue ribbon..also as said before this is how trainers make a living...and place high is large part of getting clients..it hard to win against someone cheating so the honest tend to be over aggressive about making sure others are not cutting in on they slice of the pie..

I've got a customer who's been in the TWH world for at least 25 years if not more. She tells about the same story with the same numbers as the guy interviewed. For the most part nobody ever wanted to make waves and stand up to the people who did this stuff. I'm not saying they liked it but they didn't want a confrontation. The good ole boys club that ran in the soreing circles were not the kind of people they wanted to cross or stand up to. They had the most horses at shows and the most money involved. With out them there might not have been shows. So people just didn't do anything.

It got to the point they could no longer ignore it and have tried to clean it up. This lady runs the in/out gate and her husband is the ring master some times. When there are DQP's most stacked/sored horses don't even come to the gate. They go home or don't show up. Just cause you make more rules don't mean peoople won't find new ways to break them. This is second hand info so take it for what it's worth.

My bad. I am wrong. I apologize . I read it wrong, my mind just shift to shoeing not showing .

It's my understanding that if any horse that is checked ..has any old scaring or thereof the people are fined very stiff fine ..the way I understood it was many where charged unjustly..due to old scars even if they where from a purchased horse and for that is why some pull out ..they do not wanna be fined for no reason on they part...

W

What Mr. Burton are you talking about?

Rick...sorry if I butchered his ...but by ur post I'm guessing Mr b is also a mr Burton.. but I'm guessing not the same due to rick has no issues of letting one know its him and if was the Mr b my guess is he would just arrows up to the plate..

No problem Travis. Its not me. Besides, there are lots of Rick BurtOns but very few Rick BurtEns.

Thank you.

Don't know about that Mr. Burton, but this Mr. Burten has indeed installed his fair share....

Zero

If the trainer, groom, owner, whomever, follow instructions and know what they are doing, the only time a bad is tightened is just prior to being worked and is loosened immediately after the work session is completed.

Never. But I don't shoe BLTWHs. Intentionally soring any other breed for the show ring would be stoopid(sic) and counter productive and more than likely get you fired. That said, one time and only one time I had a "trainer" ask me to get a [non-BLTW] horse just a (in his words) "teech sensitive/aware" of his feet so that said horse would move 'carefully'. Which meant that the horse would move soft and easy and not do something stupid like bucking the trainer or owner off. I suggested that the trainer might want to consider doing the job he was being paid to do. He suggested I leave. Which, after being paid, I did.

Now, to be fair, I filed that bit of 'trainer technique' away and once, years ago after I had been 'gifted' with a very talented but completely brain dead Arabian mare who would just as soon kill you as look at you, I, by accident at first, employed a version of said technique. Mare pulled a shoe and as I wasn't in the mood to fight with her to put it back on, I decided to leave her barefoot so I pulled the other front shoe and just rounded up the edges. I noticed she was rather careful when she was on hard ground, so a couple of days later, I saddled her up and took her for a spin around the arena. Son of a gun! She rode like a dream. Now, I really didn't want her sore, so I tacked a pair of fronts on her with a couple of race nails(all we had back in those days was Easy Boots and they were just about useless so I didn't use them) and the following weekend took her to a local show. Pulled the shoes right before her first class and won every class I entered that day. End of the day, I tacked the shoes back on. Went an entire show season that way. End of the season, her original owner wanted her back and was willing to pay for the the privilege. Money changed hands and I never looked back. Never saw the horse again either.

Yes Rick, barefoot horses are known to be "sored." It makes them sorefooted... I mean SUREfooted. LOL.

Travis, Mr. B. lives here in Florida and does not shoe horses. He does not want his name on the "innernet". He thinks most people on here are scammers and evil. He's in his 70's, and never messed with a computer. No other reason.

Yes I love it when the farm owners come to me and say hey give dobbin really good close trim per the trainer cause he is going in for 90 days and will not get any trim while there..most owners don't really know why they ask for that..I always Lov to say tell the trainer I don't mind driving out mid way thru to touch the horse up..lol..

....I fully respect that...I just figured I must have threw you off when I said Mr burten in place of rick..and just happen to be the guys name

Travis, did I say Mr. Burton somewhere? If I did , it was an error.