I have lots of room to grow and absolutely do not think I know everything. I would appreciate the constructive criticisms of you guys on this job I did today. Left front before Left front after Right front before Right front after Thank u for your time guys
There are many things to help you with here but I would start at the trim. There looks like there is a lot more foot to trim off. When assesing the hoof proir to shoe removal, what do you see and what would you intend to do to improve the function of the hoof? Also what guidelines and protocols do you follow when balancing feet?
I think you would improve greatly if you attended a 16 week farrier course at Kentucky Horseshoeing School. In that amount of time you would learn a lot of anatomy and the rudimentary basics of trimming and safe shoeing.
Here is a picture of the trim job when I started this trim the point of the frog was almost touching the The toe. Actually there was no hoof wall or Laminae visible from the bottom. I excavated sole for what seemed like forever.
Look like caca before and looks like caca after with a brush ran over it...just a joke..kinda.. you got some ok basics but you need to get in with a farrier to work some things out... As far as constructive info..still a good bit of foot to take off..I would have like to see the shoe set back seeing how it was run so far forward..after you get the foot gathered up then maybe fit a little full at the toe like you done..it did not get that way over night and will not fix in one Shoeing.. what's the pad for and why do the shoes look reset..I guess in three weeks the foot will look the same as far as run forward just minus the dub toe..
Hey, Travis thanks for evaluating the caca haha. I agree with the fact more foot should have come off. I blame the long trim job on the fact I was excavating for along time and I started imagining blood flying everywhere with the next swipe of my knife. This foot was so bad, and on my next visit I will be braver. I set the shoe back to the Laminae pretty much all of the hoof wall was infront of the shoe when I set it. The pad now that is all on the owner. I seriously tried to dump the pad thing. And it was a miracle she let me excavate sole. She is convinced he was tender footed. LoL I did not reset the shoes. What do you think about this, Travis, I will check in on this in three weeks and if they are running out I will yank them and trim him back farther and set the shoe back even further? Thank you so much for the help Travis.
Close up of the toe. I did Set it back Also I know this heel is still messed up is there anything you would have done?
What no one has said so far, is that that horse will be a hell of a lot more comfortable after you shod him, than he was before you shod him, so in that respect, well done.
Hey Marc, I was driving between appointments when I was replying earlier and I didn't have time to get to yours. I wanted it to be well thought out because those are some weighty questions. The first question, when assessing the hoof prior to shoe removal, what do you see and what would you intend to improve the function of the hoof? What I saw on this horse was the coffin bone pretty much floating over empty space without much support at all. The toe was so ran forward that a crack in the quarters was growing where the hoof was literally being ripped in half. The focal point of this force pretty much at the hairline on the toe. Placing incredible strain on the joints between the coffin, short P and long P, even on the joint where long P connects to cannon. I could imagine all the bones instead of lined up, being bowed from the strain of this very heavy horse. I wanted to relieve all of that pressure. My hangups were this, the horse had retained so much sole that I couldn't properly gauge where the bad sole was and good sole began. Because it was padded before the entire sole was as healthy looking from the first swipe I took, all the way down at least half an inch, healthy gleaming white sole. Then to top it all off, when the point of the frog appears to almost be touching the toe it is an optical illusion, and the frog is safely nestled down inside the cavern created by the retained soul. Well on this horse, i swear to god, because of the pads, I think, had the frog perfectly level with the retained sole. It was a nightmare. The frog though, like the sole was just retained. I slowly cut away at it and it just kept going down with the sole. It was weird. So trying to achieve relief on those joints, by removing the toe and applying a nice trim job was impeded by this crazy hoof condition. Not making excuses, but there is one for you. LoL The other thing I wanted to improve was the alignment of the the bones going into the hoof and place the coffin bone over some support. I wanted to provide more support by putting a large shoe on and setting it back and also letting the back be really full. This would put the contact surface under the coffin bone and be better. I hoped. Now the next question you posed was what guidelines and protocols do you follow when balancing feet? Ok, If the horse is conformed correctly from the long P and up, and if the horse has no hoof deformities, I try to make the contact surface parallel to the pastern bones and cannon if you are holding the leg back and looking down. I try to angle the hoof so the contact surface is under the coffin bone. Numbers would be, I think somewhere around 46degrees front and 53degrees hind. I hope you noticed that I wrote, if the horse is conformed correctly and has no hoof deformities, I have noticed when dealing with issues like those, you have to be adaptable and do what works. Because correct angles can cripple. I hope I answered your questions and I hope I didn't drone on, and know I am not making excuses, I want to be better and I know I can, eventually. With help.
Well you moved the center of articulation back about 30% witch is about 1000% better for the horse. Working on a foot in pads, in the winter with about 25" of rain so far, sucks too. There is no exfoliation. On these I start at the heels and work forward cleaning out sole as I go. I use half round nippers for this as the ol' knife mussels don't work like they once did. I think the heels could have come down more and a roll in the toe to bring the breakover back a bit more with steel still supporting the toe. Float the heel quarters too, get that slight jam out of there. If the client is going to insist on pads, you can explore a bit deeper into the sole. Of course if the clients insist on anything, I tell them I don't work for someone who knows more than me.
You can use regular nippers to approximate the no longer made sole peeling tools by pressing on the rein that drives the inner blade and not putting much pressure on the hoofwall. Use it to search for layers of sole that want to peel out. Gives a better picture of the true sole than a knife. If you are concered about running out of sole depth use hoof testers and as soon as you get the slightest reaction stop as thats as much (unless you are putting on pads in which case you can be very bold) as you can do today. Often it takes several trims/shoeings to shape up a foot. If you try and get it all done today the horse may not like it.
The reason is ask Tejun is that as farriers we do 90% of the work with our eyes and thinking of what we want to achieve, the other 10% is done with our arms and tools. I wish I could have the hooves to hand to show you where I would go with them I'm better at showing folks things in the flesh than typing it up. Do you have any experiencd farrier friends you can ride with for a day a week? I think that would really help you
Stuff deleted, my bold for emphasis . . . This statement does not make any sense at all. Um ok . . . What angle would have the contact surface NOT under the coffin bone? How do you know this? IF IT IS CORRECT, HOW CAN IT CRIPPLE THE HORSE? I appreciate you trying to give answers, but really I can't make any sense at all from what you are saying.
After reading it I thought he meant with an ideal limb the t square method works but with an angular limb deformity using the t square method can cause imbalance and therefore lameness. As others advised try ride along with someone the only way to get confident dressing feet is experience that is best gathered working with someone knowledgeable
LOL.. haha perpendicular not parallel, sorry my bad. If you have issue with that method you can ask Mark Pain on why he taught it to me. ummmmm like the angle the foot was at previous to my shoeing job? Where the coffin bone was almost behind the area that was contacting the ground. have you ever heard of a club footed horse? If it is club footed do to tendon issues and not poor trimming and If you whacked off their heels and put them at 'correct' angles it would cripple the horse. Hopefully this clears it up a little bit. I can tell from your first and second post in here and just the way you interact with others in this farrier forum, that you are going to be a hard nut to crack no matter what I am saying so I am not going to sweat you to much, although I consider you somewhat of a challenge. I would love some information from you instead of interrogation, I don't mind answering questions, but do you have any advice, information, or anything that could help, I think we already ascertained I am growing into a farrier so you don't really need to assert your dominance over me, unless that makes you feel better. *takes submissive stance* I agree and I would love to ride around with one, I think, I may hit up my old instructor, last night he invited me to last Placerville NCC, where I first got my certification(waaaaaaay back in 1997), I better start practicing now I guess, cause May will be here quickly and I am going for certification again.
Where do you live perhaps I could ride with you? ;-). Or maybe Bloomer?? Haha that would be fun I bet .
I took the angle comment to mean that you can't set angles to a standard, each foot may vary. I happen to know that Tejun works near a very outstanding, experienced, wise, internationally recognized, and quite hansom Farrier who has given him invaluable advice recently. What sets Tejun apart as a potentially great Farrier is that he has already implemented much of the sage wisdom he has received.
