Ryan - I have been applying NB shoes on front feet in excess of 10 years, and am certified by ELPO (www.e-hoofcare.com) in that respect. In review of your photos it is difficult to determine if the pre-shoeing and post-shoeing meets the standards set by ELPO in the proper trim and placement of the NB shoe. I would need to see the bottom of the trimmed hoof in a mapped-out fashion. I would invite you to the above web-site where you will find a study conducted on 100 live feet by different farriers (Certified in NB and names listed) that gives a step-by-step method of finding the external location of the widest point of the sole (not hoof wall) and its correlation with the internal center of articulation (junction of P2 and P3). I believe it was deemed a scientific study by the American Association of Equine Practitioners. This will be of great assistance to you as you continue to develop your skill sets. Good luck.
Whats your point Tom? Grant has differing views to you? Id pay to listen to him as would many, on his worse day you wouldn't come close.
David, perhaps as a 'fire man' you are correct. As to Tom's ability as a 'floor man', it would be foolish to bet against him. ymmv.
No Rick, not as far as Im concerned the confusion arouse when as a point of learning to assist Ryan I suggested he watch a you tube of Grant. Then when it was Suggested other Clinicians for a reason of balance Tom got his wires crossed. However been fun all the same.
Did I bet against him Rick? Dont think so. His knowledge is worthy of respect, but that is not what I took him to task about.
David, there is a difference between reciting and explaining. One is superficial and requires no thought and demands not to be questioned. The other requires one to question his or her own opinion and whether or not that opinion can be validated by measurement or observation or calculation. You aren't arguing with my data at all. Instead, you're dropping names as though somehow the authority of the name overrules the data. Have you fallen into the dogma trap?
You tell me Tom? We have to ask where can we learn. Alot of farriers take the time to self improve and as time goes on I realize that some old ideas have been superseded. There is merit in farriers learning the more complex anatomy and physics that is becoming more readily available as years go by. But lets be honest, the time that these clinicians put into furthering the trade, and trying to articulate what they see is worthy of my respect. Is it about where is a theoretical point hidden inside the hoof that may be more affected than effecting, is it hell! There drive is to bring the lowest point of shoeing skills up to a level that is above a welfare issue. If Grants was the worst fit you ever saw then the horse world would be a better place. If you think Grant and others are misrepresenting stuff then role up your sleeves and get on the stage with them and rationalise what you think.
I saw an article the other day where Dr. Doug Butler, CJF FWCF discussed trimming for M/L balance "perpendicular to the limb's center of gravity. " I really like Doug Butler, but I can't make any sense of that statement and since I'm pretty sure of his original source, I'm pretty sure he is reciting something he copied from Prof. Russell and published (or republished) in his text book. Butler has the sheep skin and the letters. He gets my respect for that, but my respect doesn't prevent me from questioning his data when it doesn't pass the sniff test.
We come full circle. Im sure Grants Shoe placement is indeed better than ours, I am not familiar with Dr Butlers work so cant comment. The Clinicians we have named will do more to improve grass roots shoeing and in collaboration with the scientists then equine eutopia will ensue.
Im not sure what you mean? Dave is that rare combination of good hand and brain, I dont think Im in a minority to think that.
as i see it any work /theory , fact will always be open to be pulled apart , shown not to be correct or just ridiculed by others who cannot tell us different in either written or practice , it just seems to be human nature ,something can always be gleaned from others work right or wrong
anyone else wonder how it all works out for any particular horse ,what ever or however ,protocol or practitioner was used? and if it worked ........... will it work for and in every situation? ray
I'm sure Grant's execution, precision and proficiency is better than anyone on this forum. It is because of that ability he is sought and admired as a clinician. But he made his name in the forging competition arena, not debating in the scientific arena of ideas. I would welcome such a debate, but nobody is going to pay to see me debating a clinician and I'm not going to pay out of my own pocket for the privilege.
