George,i have been shoeing big lick horses lomger than most here are old,and i have never witnessed anything like what was shown? The most i have ever witnessed is gingering~ Oncee a top top cutting horse trainer who was big and mean beat a world champion doc bar horse across his head with a 2 ft lob chain and turned to me standing next to the fence and said he needed that! And then he asked how i felt about it,and i said,"Well" i don't think i would of been so harsh,And he said,that is why he is a world champion. He ended up moving away so i didn't have to quit. Now that would of been hard........................
Well your eye sight must of been lacking longer then most. Every horse going round in that clip is being abused ether with a blistering agent or simply by the way its shod. I liken it to lets beat up on a dozen or so cripples so they wont hesitate to crawl. Tip them out of their wheel chair . Then the one that has the highest arm action while enduring the pain & suffering drag them self round the arena wins there guardian a prize. Mate !!! you really are a Nob & that's being polite.~~~~~~
Jack, This is bad for America and you foreigners see these clips and they make you think that this guy beating, this horse wanted to be photographed? You don't have enough experience with walkinghorses to judge especially in a farrier forum. Can you believe this? I have seen more farriers abuse horses than i have seen trainers? But that doesn't make it right?
I have shod enough hackneys with natural gait to know they need nothing more then to be shod the same as any trotter & I have dealt with some of the same minded scum in that fraternity. Who felt harsh bits & boat anchors nailed to their hooves is ok & acceptable regardless of it breaking the horse down. I use to talk to those scum in Italian. (With my hands) Talking in Italian to them gave them a better understand of inflicted pain. There is no excuse its that black or white.
Jack, I have to agree. That crawl is so beyond the natural gait that there is no doubt that other measures must have been used. A doctor took swabs from 52 horses' ankles and 52 came up with a foreign substance . That's 100%. 52 is a small test group but 100% is substantial. I would bet that the winners all do something painful to the horse, and the losers may not. But those who challenge a winner can't possibly win without painful measures. It also leads one to wonder if those "winners" cannot win without training with pain. And the losers actually have the better horses.
Karen the clip said a substance and I thought it said that it could have been any substance..not that all where a soreing agent.. I have never meet one person who agrees with what SOME do to walking horses but we know they are out there..I feel its important to point out you can't lump the whole bunch into the abuse ..its just not the case ... That's almost like saying anyone who owns a gun kill people..anytime money is involved you get those type.. asking a farrier assoc to step in and get involved is crazy talk..hell most farriers I know haven't a clue on how to pad a horse or do they wanna know.. its much like a catch 22 like just passing thru step up and said he has not seen that kind of thing going on..and somehow one would assume he is ok with it..just not the case..I have been around a few walking horse farms and I have the same experience as JPT.. I have seen way more abuse out of farriers than trainers..if the farrier assoc wants to police something maybe they own porch would be a good place to start..we could debate to the end of time if stack shoes are harmful..we would need to look at saddle breeds packages ..Arabians packages....toe grabs ...NB...and any other shoeings that have had a adverse effect on the horse... Sure the gait has got to the point of over doing it but as well any displine that is a throw back to a time past is as well..how many fox huntings you think had large jumps one after the other all while a rider is grinding the hell out of a horse to beat the clock..horse racing ..we don't even have to go there because they are those that do right and well they is the scum.. just like anything you have some good and some bad..also its my understanding that if a horse has any scaring at all that horse will never show agian..I'm sure some slide thru the cracks ...I think we all can agree its awful what is going on in that vid but to assume that everyone does that is false ..and just not true..and to ask a farrier org to spend money on it ..is a waste of time that could be spent helping farrier with CE..
Travis, farriers are not to blame for this. It would be a good thing if they could police their part in all this. I think the doctor's statement said that 52 horses tested + for a chemical-and insinuated that it wasn't one that one would normally find on a horse. I don't see how a humanely trained horse could compete with a horse trained with pain and fear-those things just happen to make the horse appear more flamboyant, and edge into a top placing -where they are rewarded for all their hard work-what a laugh! I just hope some good comes out of this, and it doesn't get pushed aside and forgotten. It's a shame that even a good farrier can get pulled into this dung heap.
The way I see it you can be part of the problem or part of the solution. You can have professional ethics and a code of conduct or you can sell your soul to whoever pays you. You can speak out and walk away or you can stay silent and condone what's happening. I'm not buying that "good" farriers get sucked into the mire! They're not passive victims. They're self-employed service providers and they get to chose who they serve and what they provide and condone. Standing by watching the abuse and enabling it with weighted shoeing packages specifically designed to make the horse uncomfortable so it will lift it's feet isn't the action of a "good" anything!
It is wise to remember this adage: Big Lick horses won'twork if they are not lame, all other foot wavers won't work if they are [lame].
That's a great point George ...below the hair line if something is done then do something..that bat upside the horses head ..that whip across its ass to get up ..and even the placement of agents is well over the hair line..so i feel any farrier org should not be involved...pressure Shoeing yes farriers should ...not that the other stuff is ok just that to pick a battle that's not as common as some make it out to be..
I'm in agreement with George re this.... There's every reason why farriers ought to act as an advocate for the horse and lobby against such practice. Here our Farriers Association were most active in the likes of lobbying against he practices of Strasser and also to get agreement re the likes of couping on clydesdales stopped. They're well respected for that and as such often on the likes of government consultations for new welfare etc.
Might be one of the things you would expect from a recognized profession. A standard. A high standard.
George, the ginger is used under the tail in the anus to irritate it and make them carry their tails higher.
Unfortunately the only effective test for ginger is TASTE. Haven't found any steward, at any arab show "willing to go the distance".
So I imagine that becoming a professional taster would be high in demand and that , would mean gobs of money just pouring in!
Practice, practice, practice. Whenever you're with your horse, use it as an opportunity to improve skill. As to the big lick trainer, is whacking the horse in the head common and what purpose dose it serve?
