Shoe Length

From Everyday shoeing

Is Kim right? At what point does length become leverage?

The cannon bone ends at the fetlock.

Shoe leverage ends at the coffin joint.

Now this was surprising, but yes depending on the photo orientation results can vary. Meaning if it was dead on lateral or slightly skewed.

For this foot, (assuming photo is straight on, almost appears camera was slight ahead of center), it would appear that more length would have been leverage based on what I was told. I don't have my notes in front of me, but I'm quite certain he said cannon.

I'm curious about this as well, because I have two horses it seems that I can fit as much behind the heels as I'd like and they never pull a shoe. Both of them are run forward though, perhaps that makes the difference. Hoof is not gathered up like it should be anyways.

I'm not sure if the center line of the cannon would work on all feet the more I think about it. Widest point of the frog is the way I fit most. Unless I'm fearing shoe pulling and then I shorten up. Egg bars seem to be fit to the heel bulbs in most cases I've seen, but they were all on horse's not being used at the moment.

David I can picture an excessive shoe heel grinding the foot to a premature stop. I bet actually seeing it is more disturbing than the thought. I've heard some mention giving a little more length in the back to slow down forgers same principle I guess.

Kim, that's pretty interesting about the length of shoe heel and premature heel landing. So if a horse lands heel first like it should (?), then it would be landing sooner because of the shoe heel.

So, how do you know when the extended shoe heel length is too much for the horse? What would eventually happen with over-lengthened shoe heels?

David can answer far better than I...... Remember I'm a "Probie" as well.

Now see? I always looked at "probie" as a nice nickname, LOL. Not degrading.

Well, Kim, you seem to have put it into words that I understand. I guess we'll have to wait and see if David CAn really answer that better!

Maybe he already answered it. (Limb recoil)

Interesing stuff so far. Kim I hope you don't mind me quoting you.

I often have "discussions" with Mal about how much shoe should be hanging out the back. I'm positive he shoes my riding horse to short because he is good at pulling them off, the trade off on that though is the foot running under. I often look at feet and think a little more would look more balanced but so far I've really been guessing. Is there a good guideline out there or is it something you have to get a feel for.

Tom I look at that pic and think I get it, but how so you see that on the outside of a foot.

Thanks

Susan I don't mind at all. I definately have a more limited experience than the rest of these guys. I agree it is feel for the most part on what's too much.

Here's an article on forging (interference). http://www.horsemanpro.com/articles/interfering_forging.htm

I have one on the books that I'm trying to sort out that does this, and I'm afraid Jaye is correct that he is unsound and there is little I'll "fix". Still tweaking things in the hope to stay on top of it. I've put light shoes on the front and very slightly lowered the angle, then I put heavy shoes on the hinds and raised the angle slightly. So far it's worked but it's only been one setting this way. Also horse is on 24/7 turnout, heavy rider, big horse, and probably lame. lol

Karen, I could see the shoe with excessive heels blowing the suspensory in a hard landing. But I might be envisioning it wrong.

The heel can't be considered as a lever without also considering the toe as the opposite end of the same lever.

The longer the toe, the more ground force pushes UP, and the opposite end of the toe lever is the heel lever - the fulcrum being the coffin joint. Think if it as an upside down seesaw with the toe at one end and the heel at the other - Coffin Joint in the middle.

The horse's weight bears DOWN on the center of the coffin bone - which is in front of the coffin joint. Ground forces push UP on the ground surface of the foot - a lever between the toe and heel which rotates at the coffin joint.

So there is another lever between Duckett's Dot (weight bearing ) and the center of the coffin joint (ground support). This lever is affected by the hoof angle and pastern length . . .

http://www.fairhillforge.com/Russellarticle.html

I agree with tom I also feel guys get in trouble with not looking at the toe as a leverage.. I see have seen a large use in toe clips in my area ..and a lot imho let the toe get away from them..I have no issue with toe clips but I do feel they get miss used by some guys as I think the let the toe get long ...imo Jeff crane sets up a pretty toe clip horse..I don't feel comfortable enough using them on most horses ...it just seems every pic Jeff puts up its really looks balanced out nice...if I could get mine like his maybe I would use more..

More likely blowing the extensor . . . short shod horses blow suspensories.

I'll try to wrap my head around it better. Could be more what I was thinking. In my mind I was imagining the heels catching and popping the pastern forward. So I thought of the suspensories.

As the great philosopher Joe Cocker would say, "You can leave your hat on."

I have to admit I can't wrap my head around how short shod blows suspensories.

To me it seems the foot would rock back more stressing the DFT and relaxing the suspensories. But then again I'm thinking short shod as in heels too short, not the overall foot.

I like having these discussions, appreciate all input especially since it's " been there done that " for most.

Kim I sent a pony to ky to the pony finals they sent it back with the report saying blown suspensory..to long of a toe and to short of heel..farriers fault is all the owner heard...she was hot enough to screw ...luckly he was droped off at our equine hospital and they found nothing wrong ....I have been scared to death to short shoe anything that leaves the ground sense then...good luck in your career..its all hard to get your head around..

I see dozens coming off the track every year with blown suspensories and bowed tendons - every one of them short shod and fit to the toe. See it in jumpers short shod and fit to the toe. If you want to blow up horse's legs, ignore the heels and shoe the toe. Empirically it's a sure thing.