Hot Seating

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by ray steele, Mar 12, 2012.

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    ray steele Administrator

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    Spotonshoeing,

    thanks for the ideas, maybe someone will be in a position to evaluate this, if they deem it worthwhile.

    Regards

    Ray
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    No. I was sharing his wisdom because I don't have any beliefs when it comes to farriery.
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    ray steele Administrator

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    Christos,

    micro scope, I can see that becoming a "must" have part of every farriers tool box, now to decide, from the Gilbert chemistry set, or nuclear...

    Seriously, I look forward to what you observe, thanks

    Regards

    Ray
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    ray steele Administrator

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    Bruce,

    1st we may have to prove that Bill Adams exists!

    Regards

    Ray
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    Spot On Shoeing __________________

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    My hypothosis is that if you apply a sealant immediately after hot fitting you would see a higher uptake than without hot fitting.
    Hot fitting drives moisture out of the immediate area of contact, so the osmotic tendency(as Bloomer pointed out) immediately following that I suspect would be greater uptake of moisture?
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Easier and more accurate to use an electronic wood moisture probe. Then do the experiment in vivo.
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    Spot On Shoeing __________________

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    Would a moisture probe show if the tubules were sealed at the foot surface?
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    I've met him in person. At the time he was wearing a tie-died shirt. OTOH, it could have been somebody impersonating Bill Adams . . .
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    Spot On Shoeing __________________

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    The in vivo experiment directly followed Christos's idea for an in vivo experiment.

    You could easily follow the same basic protocol in vitro, use a small bone currette and sample locations to gauge uptake.
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that anything short of putting a sample under a microscope could actually confirm that the tubules are "sealed." But this raises the question, how big are the openings in the tubules? Do you think that if you took a section of hoof wall and attached a hose to it that you could get water to flow through the tubules?

    Some moisture meters work on electrical resistance with pins inserted into the wood and others work on ultrasound. You would probably have to calibrate the meter to get a baseline for horn, but all you would know is if the moisture level changed, not if the moisture came up the tubules or across the cellular membranes.
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    William Kiner WCB # 362

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    Took a A pic of a horse that hot fitting dose help. Fracture of p3 . Good level burn nice fitting of the clips

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    Bill Adams Active Member

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    Well I do exist, and see that a couple of posts here came dangerously close to taking my name in vain.
    I have for years told people that hot fitting seals the tubules, therefor it dose.
    My scientific reasoning here is that when you put a piece of metal at about one or two thousand degrees F, on the bottom of the hoof, it's gona seal and melt any horny tissue and kill any microbes in the vicinity.
    I look at this benefit as being just a little better for the horse and the quality of the job. This "little bit better" added to several other "little bit betters" soon add up to a lot better.
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    Christos Axis Member

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    So, some first remarks from todays first experiment with samples and pictures. The microscope does not show any tubules the way I expected them, ie no empty tubules. No little holes on the surface. The tubules are there, but they are more like little monofilament fibers than like little tubes. They are not empty, they do not have a hole through their center. Have to get better samples to take a picture of this, the shavings I obtained were too thick to lay flat under the lens and still too thin to split in two. I'll take better ones tomorrow.

    But we have some close up photos with a camera. These are the walls of very healthy hooves, nice and strong. They were barefoot through the winter. It seems that the surface is packed to a thin glassy layer. No tubules seen there, everything is smooth and shiny. Only surface cracks on this otherwise glassy surface. But once you take a very thin shaving off the surface, the tubules become visible. You can see in these pictures too that the tubules are not little tubes. There are no holes.

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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Now that Bill Adams is here this forum is a little bit better. :D

    Welcome to the farriers forum Bill!
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Christos, that is awesome.

    Thanks! Looking forward to more. Also, how about drying out some hoof trimmings and see what happens?
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    Christos Axis Member

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    We'll work it out, Tom, slowly but surely. It was a surprise not to find any little holes close to the surface, not even at 400X magnification, but I have to verify this tomorrow, it can be that rasping the area or shaving it with the knife, however gently, crushed and sealed the tubules. I'll try to obtain samples with a very sharp little wood plane, it will also give a much smoother surface to take photos.

    It does seem initially that our assumption of the tubules being hollow at the distal end of the wall is not valid. They are hollow at their origin, at the coronet, where the little hair that generate them occupy the little hole in their center, but they may be growing down solid from there. We'll see.
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    Jeff Holder World Domination

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    We can relax now,Bill is here.
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    Michael Allen Champion spokesman for UK toolmaker!

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    How do we know this is the real Bill Adams ?o_O
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    Michael Allen Champion spokesman for UK toolmaker!

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    Question? How would the movement of the hoof, expansion and contraction, affect this . Would it help move fluid up and down the tubuals?
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    Michael Allen Champion spokesman for UK toolmaker!

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    I was wondering the same thing , could they be swelled shut?

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