Anyone welcome to comment, but mostly interested in CptlHorseshoeings thoughts. What are your thoughts/opinions on certification relating to quality of work as well as pricing? Does one have to be certified to do a good job and charge a fair/living wage? How about experience level? *This question is for CptlHorseshoeing directly. What is your experience level, certification level, how long certified vs years shoeing?
I am working on my AFA CF right now. I don't think being certified will make you any more money but the things you learn in the process of getting certified will make you more money. You have to do quality work to pass the certification test. Those who do quality work are more likely to get the better/ higher end accounts so theoretically should be getting more money. That DOES NOT mean there aren't plenty of guys out there who aren't certified but could pass the test without trying or that guys who aren't certified do a bad job.
In my experience certification means you can do good work it dosent mean you will and saddly around hear how bad you want to shoe horses dictates the$ more then the quality of your work or your education.
I had a customer tell me once she had another farrier stop in and tell her he knew what she was paying for trimming and would do it for a cheaper rate. She informed the other farrier she had a farrier she liked and trusted and wouldn't change no matter what she would save.
That type of client is a real blessing. Loyalty among clients can sometimes be lacking. Those are definitely the kind of people you want to work for.
Clint, thats what this thread is all about your every day work good work is good work letters dont mean anything to me I have never been asked to show mine in 40 years. you can talk a good job all day , put it up on the thread you will soon know if its good work or not. one thing for sure we all think we do great work
Would the horse benefit from someone who is assessed to be competent in trimming fitting and nailing? I don't mean the old hands I mean the new boys?
David, I believe that the horse would benefit in the beginning from a young/inexperienced shoer being assessed in their abilities. Especially in the beginning. But, it is up to the individual to continue learning/educating themselves for the duration of their career. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen. I have more thoughts on this that I will share latter.
couldent hurt thats for sure but i think educating the horse owners dose more for the horse then a one time check up on a farriers skills .To many people judge a job souly on how long the shoes stay on .My former partner and i use to do a horse day for the 4h kids i think it did a lot of good. Saddly we havent ben able to get one together for a wile
In 22 years, I've had one client ask if I was Certified. It was just after I pasted the AFA CF practical (on the first try) so she was ok with me touching her horses. At the beginning of the second appointment she got her bitchy self fired, and tools were loaded up and gone. A new hobby I've taken up, is to set up Eventing horses that have been shod by CJFs down south, and get them moving correctly. Sometimes a few days after they were shod. I lost the motivation to finish my certification but have nothing but good to say about the process. In the end though, good daily work and improvement is up to the person. You have to make the last horse you've done the best job you've ever done. I've known great Farriers who were Certified and great Farriers who weren't. The ones who were Certified would still be great Farriers even if there were no certifying organizations. I have a friend who was being asked to give clinics and thought that it would probably be a good idea to get the letters on his card. He took the CF and passed, but they kept his shoe board (hand made though not required) so they could display it at the convention. Two weeks later he passed the CJF test his first try. He didn't become great because he passed the tests, he passed the tests easily because he is great.
Here is how I view it, if they can put a flat shoe on a flat foot, nail it and finish it to a standard once they can do it again. In order to do that once they have to learn, if they have never been able to put a flat shoe on a flat foot, nail and finish it then the horse suffers every time. If they choose to neglect their standards then the next newly assessed chap will take their place, he will strive to be better or he will lose work to the next newly assesed chap. As the young fellows gain experience then it is built on a sound foundation, not having to learn to trim level and correctly after they have been in the job for a few years. Then you will start an unstoppable trend, 20 to 40 years later it will be amazing. All us old fuckers who recon it's all gone to hell in a hand cart will be as my old friend says be horizontal and eating through a straw, so there won't be the I've never been asked ever if I was certifiable crowd because you will only get a job if you are.
[quote=" All us old fuckers who recon it's all gone to hell in a hand cart will be as my old friend says be horizontal and eating through a straw, so there won't be the I've never been asked ever if I was certifiable crowd because you will only get a job if you are.[/quote] 1st , i don t believe for a moment that it s ALL gone to hell in/on or about a hand basket, I believe certification will come if the society you live in advances or declines ,whichever side one chooses to use for their spin, to a point that they always believe that government will be the messiah and great corrector to the perceived ills of that society. In this case farriery and the horse. As i recall often it has been written that good work and less than quality work has been performed in a # of government regulated locals, to me that shows that the regulatory standards are basically an excuse for another beauracratic agency. I m wondering why there is not an agency to over see the dog toenail trimmers of the world, now that s a group that should be looked at, think if all the dogs compared to horses, the fright that some dogs go thru having the nails clipped ..and the miss cuts, to the quick no less.............. David, I ve asked a # of times, has anyone ever seen a horse that was "permanently, unequivocally, lamed by A bad trim/shoeing? So far I ve never been answered............ my guess and it s only a guess ,is that because of the resilience of the equine it doesn t happen. now being the chap that I be, I ll put up a pint,. and include a straw for you convenience if needed and a depends for you ,again if needed ,that 50 years from now, this same debate will be going on over this same subject , in more than one venue. Regards Ray with the middle initial of F, just so i can say i have an initial after my name
Ray as ever sage words.... I believe poorly placed shoes will cause irreversible damage. Mmm beer through a straw, you know you have had it then..... Yep 50 years and beyond.... But that doesn't make good copy....
yet you have i m sure, replaced poorly placed shoes on what you might have believed would lead to irreversible ,only to see the equine go fine, if even after a tincture of time, and i m sure you have seen damaged equines not damaged reletive to shoeing/trimming not recover no matter how adequately shod/trimmed. as to the straw, if i can t set up and take nourishment, i ll want to avoid spillage and will opt for IV! as for good copy , i ll let you know in 50, stay tuned! ray
Ray, I've heard several Strauser stories about horses and ponies being trimmed to her standard of sole cupping that foundred and had to be put down. I've seen perimeter fit shoes on long toe horses that caused or exacerbated bowed tendons or other soft tissue injuries. Horses didn't die, but were retired from it. David, or any of the other UK or European regulated Farriers here, a question before I continue; Do you see poor work from licensed/approved Farriers over there? It seems I remember pictures of bad work in the 'before' shots from someone over there in the past.
Ah yes Ray I have walked on water and fixed the unfixable... Bill I'm sure I have seen substandard work. I may have done work that has been described by another as sub standard. I will say that poor training is a difficult thing for trainees to recover from.
Jissus Bill, were they "certified" Strauserites? ya know you mention Fraulein Strauser quite often, should I start referring to you as a" follower" of ? Regards ray
Ray, I consider her mine Fuhrer. Or Fuheress, however that works. I read an article by a gal who quit Strauser's group because the horse she trimmed to get her top certification (which she passed just fine), had to be put down with founder. I also read that Strauser is not allowed to practice Veterinary in Great Britain because of several cases her and/or her minions destroyed.
Everyone who shoes horses legally in the UK must, at some stage, have been able to shoe a horse to a fairly high standard, as the diploma exam is quite rigorous and you are not allowed to shoe without it as a minimum qualification. Whether Farriers choose to maintain that standard after they qualify is up to the individual. ..
