Mockery of the Trade? spinoff

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by George Geist, Jan 24, 2013.

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    George Geist Active Member

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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    First you have to change the constitution and give horses "rights."

    All other licensed occupations are licensed on the legal constitutional authority of protecting the welfare of "the people." That includes veterinarians, yes, that's right. The constitutional basis of veterinary licensing has to do with protecting the human food supply and protecting the public from zoonotic disease. Any part of administrative law that takes the authority of the veterinary profession beyond that is turf protection.

    The only legal loophole I can think of that would allow farrier licensing under the constitution would be if it was predicated on protecting the owner's "investment." And to make that case, you would have to prove that unregulated shoeing hurts the market value of the animal.
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    Rick Burten Professional farrier

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    Kind of a "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" situation.

    Well, here's the place to start with your observations/reasons.

    Been there, done that and it doesn't work very well, if at all. And how do you propose to pay for these new horseshoeing boards and the various duties you propose for them? Who gets to write the standards and, why those individuals? Will those boards also be responsible for overseeing those individuals who only trim horses hooves? Why do you suppose that only one of the national farrier's organizations that offers a certification/credentialing process also offers a barefoot trimming certification/credentialing process and that process must first be completed successfully before a candidate can stand for the shoeing/farrier certification/credentialing process? And what are you going to do with all of these? http://www.americanfarriers.com/pages/More-On-All-Those-Footcare-Credentials.php

    Even with the British system, we've all seen photos of work we might consider sub-standard and though there have been instances where the regulating body has stepped in and issued 'judgements', those instances appear to be few and far between. So, do you really think that State boards in the United States would be any more effective and just as importantly, apolitical? Again, based on my personal experience and that of other farriers whose custom is in Illinois, it doesn't work well or apolitically.

    Would it be more acceptable to you if it was done privately? And, when someone comes to the internet seeking input/advice/opinions, what would you have us do? That said, I acknowledge that giving professional input over the internet can be a very slippery slope and in most instances should have a disclaimer attached. Even a disclaimer as simple as IMO or IME or YMMV would be a good start/end for each response where advice/opinion is offered.

    Neither, and, both. :)

    Considering your position on offering advice/opinion/critique, how is that going to be possible? Perhaps you have a set of guidelines you'd like to share with the rest of us?

    Well, if nothing else, it might be entertaining.............
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    david kelly Dave Kelly

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    Why so every time you turn on animal planet theres animal welfare people 'rescuing' horses on grounds of cruelty how would legislating that a horse has to be shod by a registered farrier or will be considered cruelty be any different?

    I still think the british system is the best way not perfect you will always have a few but most of the work I have seen come from England has been good. I wish we had the same legislation in Ireland.

    I would agree 100% with you George but from what Ive read on here its a waste of time even debating the issue in the U.S as you would never agree on a basic standard for testing.

    Would agree with Rick if an owner comes on asking for advice on whether their shoeing job is any good its only fair they get an honest answer.
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    smitty88 Well-Known Member

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    Follow the English system you wont go far wrong
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    Platerforge Guest

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    Well, it can start with bringing the Union test back to the tracks.
    having an degree in Farriery Science would be a start.
    bringing the Worshipful Company of Farriers education system to us(USA) with the WCB, AFA, IUJH, BWFA, and others together to help!!! each other; and bringing in all the shoeing schools to give more education and cooperate with the vet schools together for better promotion of the trade, and have continuing education and work together on towards certification as a learning tool; and an outstanding apprenticeship program promoted by farriers for farriers

    ps, I'll be away.....taking care of nephew.....come back to this at a later date; I have wonderful ideas to implement such education here to the states for the benefit of all farriers.
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    Platerforge Guest

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    yes it the owners that promote sub-standard work; by hiring anybody off the streets; and not knowing the difference until it is too late.

    as I said before; KUDOS to you Eric; you don't give yourself enough credit on your blacksmithing skills.
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Well David if you had spent as much time researching professional regulation in the USA as I have, and maybe studied the US constitution and bill of rights a little bit to understand how that affects our legal system, then maybe you would get my point. But let me put it in terms you might find a little more obvious. If farriers should be licensed in the US to protect the welfare of the horse, then mechanics should be licensed to protect the welfare of trucks and cars. Dig?
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    Zouhair Benjabbour Zou

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    I totally agree with David, the only thing I would add is that English customers are aware of Farriers Registration so they would look at the list and make sure the farrier they are going to use is in there.

    QUOTE: "Even with the British system, we've all seen photos of work we might consider sub-standard and though there have been instances where the regulating body has stepped in and issued 'judgements', those instances appear to be few and far between."

    I agree with you Rick about this point, but it is near impossible not to get something like that in any field. But the sub standard is still better than some of the horrors you get from people that have no idea what they are doing.
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in Britain everything is regulated and they seem to like to that way.

    Quite the opposite over here in the colonies. Though we have given King Obama another 4 years, so there's still hope for more government.
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    smitty88 Well-Known Member

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    David its perfect comparing to the rest
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    Michael Allen Champion spokesman for UK toolmaker!

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    I'm more interested in protecting horseshoers from Bad owners and bad horses
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    travis dupree reed Active Member

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    ...:....... I tend to agree with tom and think that here the reason we have so many issues with regulations is we are founded by being free...our whole being is to walk to the beat of our own drum... Here you are able to make it as big as you wish and toot able to fail as bad as you wish...its not that we don't want a high standard in what we do ..we just don't want anyone telling us what to do or how to do it...in that you get those that don't give a damn ...its a double edge sword ..you get sims of the best and some of the worse..at the end of the day we live in the best land on earth thus why so many are trying to get in here...
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    I've never met a bad horse.
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    brian robertson Active Member

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    Then, thank your lucky stars Tom.
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    George Spear Member

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    I have also never met a bad horse
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    Gary Hill Active Member

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    Come see me, I can show you horses that aim at ya before they attempt to kick...:) Problem was NO one has ever even halter broke them..most are broodmares..wilder that March Hares...:)
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    Michael Allen Champion spokesman for UK toolmaker!

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    I have met evil horse. Most are in Natural horsemanship training.
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    david kelly Dave Kelly

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    I'm not disagreeing with that statement but just out of interest how many other countries have you been to for comparison to make that statement?
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    david a hall Moderator

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    Travis where you been? Nothing like a good bit of chest beating to re afirm the feeling of freedom.:D

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