Nature plate horseshoe

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by ray steele, Sep 15, 2014.

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    ray steele Administrator

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    I m posting some pictures of a Nature Plate horseshoe,these were going out of vogue when I started shoeing in the mid 1970 s. I had this one on my desk for awhile and often when on a phone conversation will pick it up and just look at it, often times wondering what the " inventor" was thinking,trying to accomplish".....

    Any thoughts?

    Ray

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    Jack Evers Active Member

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    I have a few of those around, Ray. I never did put one on. Another fellow here used to put beads of hardface around that rim, It would wear to a sawtooth and be a non skid ice shoe. What was the inventer thinking of --- MONEY. You probably have real numbers, but as I recall they were about $10 a pair, which was a bunch of 1970 dollars. I knew their time had come and gone when the old Centaur Forge had them at $10 for one pair or $2.50 a Pair on a quantity purchase.
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    ray steele Administrator

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    Jack,

    Biggest thing I remember bout them was Bud Beaston saying that they would wear sharp like a razor and might cut tendons, I don t remember ever hearing anyone say that they ,did wear sharp and cut a tendon. In the 1990s sometime Anvil magazine had some story bout them as compared to the World training/racing plate.

    Looking at the Nature Plate , I m impressed that someone would invest in what appears to be a fairly complicated drop forge die for this shoe , making me think that they,the inventor really believed that they had the next best thing to sliced bread, and may not have been in it only for the money.

    I ve only got a couple of odd plates, if you would be willing to sell me a pair, I ll try to find a nag to put them on and watch the wear pattern and ..improvement, crippling effect or none of the above.

    I hope some folk here get the time to look at the pattern, it is ,at least to me an impressive bit of forging...useless or not. It also ,to me , points out how folk keep attempting to mimic nature,or what they think is nature while using the equine ,outside of the parameters. that is, comparing to the wild equine while being kept and used in a domesticated setting.

    Ray
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    Jack Evers Active Member

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    I'll see if I can come up with a matched pair. They were well made. Now, I seem to recall $7.50 a pair, still a bunch in the 70's.
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    Rocksie Member

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    It's a relative of the outer rim. Interesting.

    The notion the rim would wear sharp isn't logical. It just wears down until it's gone. I've always thought an outer rim shoe would concentrate concussion to the wall. Does that make sense?
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    Jack Evers Active Member

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    I'd agree.
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    Bill Adams Active Member

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    This looks to me like it should have been called the Retarded Breakover Shoe. It's as if someone thought that a toe grab only delays breakover when the horse is going straight forward , why not add a flange all around the shoe, so that we retard break in every direction, injuring the soft tissue in more areas of the foot and leg. Oh, and while we're at it, we'll make the heels real narrow so the foot will sink caudally into soft footing, retarding break even more. Must have been a Vet and a knacker involved in the design.
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    smitty88 Well-Known Member

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    They look very well made
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    ray steele Administrator

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    Bill,

    supposedly this shoe was patented! When I get some time I ll try to look up the patent and see if I can get the inventors name, don t think i ever heard it, .unless he/she was Mr. or Mrs " some idiot". cause that s how i ve heard it described a # of times. as in some idiot thought this would work. but then that covers a lot in our little industry. Maybe Jack knows his/her name.

    As for the penciled heels, they were in vogue at that time and in some shoes today ,still are! look at the eventers and rayguang wide rim for starters.

    What got me posting the questions was that last week I picked up a hind hoof and cept for the shape, the high points were pretty muck the same as the nature plates. I did nt notice the heels!


    Ray
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    Michael Allen Champion spokesman for UK toolmaker!

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    Is it beveled to the hoof wall or straight down? I kind of want to make a pair now. 11 1/2 in of 5/16 x 1 is a good section to start with.
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    ray steele Administrator

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    michael,

    the shoe is beveled to the wall

    ray
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    Jack Evers Active Member

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    Yep! they were built to be a continuation of the wall, ending in a sharp edge. Sort of an extreme Barrel Racing Special.

    Ray, I haven't uncovered my pair.
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    ray steele Administrator

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    Ray, I haven't uncovered my pair.[/quote]


    Jack,

    do you remember,were the made in a front and hind pattern or just front?

    I rcd. an email today from another shoer who is following this , implying that these were invented by a vet , the name used was Wm. Livingston, with ties to New Mexico and the 1996 Breeders cup. I ve not been able to tie them together via a quick Google search.

    What I found interesting was the New Mexico reference, it jogged a memory , in and around the early 1990, Jim Kieth was promoting a shoe that was, in my opinion, similar.

    Ray
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    Jack Evers Active Member

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    I only remember the one pattern, Ray. As I said in a previous post, I believe they were $7.50 or so a pair. I knew they were goners when I picked up a centaur forge catalog and saw some thing like $7.50/pair or $20.00 for 10 pair.


    Jim's somewhat similar shoe came from Mexico, Lucky 7 shoe company I believe. It was more like a rim shoe with the inner rim missing., the outer rim was vertical and rounded. I used a number of those. Liked them on the horse. Problem was the top to bottom bending strength was all in that outer rim. They tended to twist while shaping and if I pulled clips from that outer rim, they lost all rigidity and were easily sprung. I have a nice patchwork quilt covered with horseheads in the living quarters of my horse trailer that came from that shoe company as a door prize at one of the conventions,
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    ray steele Administrator

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    I rcd. an email today from another shoer who is following this , implying that these were invented by a vet , the name used was Wm. Livingston, with ties to New Mexico and the 1996 Breeders cup. I ve not been able to tie them together via a quick Google search.



    after further questioning the source about Wm. Livingston, i was informed that the relation between the nature Plates and William Livingston and breeders cup fame was hearsay.

    I have not found the patent or any other reference to the shoes but as originally stated, I still think that they are are pretty good and intricate forging.

    hopefully Michael will get round to trying some and show us.

    ray
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    Jack Evers Active Member

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    Ray, I'd heard the Seattle Shoe had some success on the Standard bred tracks. Know anything about it? I tried to upload a picture, but I haven't been able to that on this site for some time - don't know why. Maybe I'll try next week from a different computer.
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    ray steele Administrator

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    Jack, never saw one in use.....anywhere,cept in advertising, sorry i can t be of any help .

    ray
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    ray steele Administrator

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    Jack,

    considering what folks have thought bout some of these shoes, and the malady that I hear a # of folk over 60 years talk bout ,C ,can t, R, remember, S, shit. or CRS for short, ,

    I think we ve proven that we

    C,can, R,remember, S,shit!

    that Lucky Seven was a great call, I d have had to go back to back issues of the AFJ for it..........if I could remember where I put the old journals

    thanks

    ray
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    Michael Allen Champion spokesman for UK toolmaker!

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    Next day in the shop I will give it a go. Beveled to the wall I could see it getting sharp. Especially on a hind. It might cause a little over reaching.
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    Michael Allen Champion spokesman for UK toolmaker!

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    I should have paid more attention to nail placement. 20141020_162738.jpg 20141020_162747.jpg 20141020_163616.jpg 20141020_163520.jpg

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