Over reaching

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Melissa, Jul 4, 2013.

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    Melissa New Member

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    This is my mare's first year out barrel racing and she is already up in the 2D but she has early onset navicular (has had X-rays). But she is over reaching every run and bending the outside heel, with bell boots. We have stood her up and dubbed the toes on her hind feet as well as bending in the heels more on her front feet. She isn't built to run so I'm completely stuck on what to do.

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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Yea, leaving the heels too long is almost guaranteed to cause over reaching and "navicular symptoms."

    Today's lesson in geometry and biomechanics - the longer the heel, the further under the horse the foot will be when the horse pulls the foot off the ground because at turnover the foot comes off the ground heel first. Also, (assuming the same toe length) the longer the heel, the shorter the base of the footprint.
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    brian robertson Active Member

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    time to start shopping for another horse
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    david a hall Moderator

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    Forgive me hi jacking this a bit, but I hear farriers talking about setting these, I believe they are called can chasers, up to shave split seconds off the time, so my basic question is how do you shoe a can chaser as opposed to another short burst speed horse? OP if your horse is still overreaching then the hinds can always go further back, and the toe could always be safed more.
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    Platerforge Guest

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    super tight; like a hunter fit.
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    brian robertson Active Member

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    fact: sore horses pull shoes and interfere. fact: the owner said "She isn't built to run". fact:the owner stated the horse has navicular issues. unless those issues are resolved the horse will continue to pull shoes and interfere no matter what or how you shoe that horse. the horse has a progressive degenerative condition without a cure, rendering the horse unsuitable for the discipline the owner has chosen.

    time to go shopping
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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    There is a study, paraphrasing here because I can't find the actual study; study done on fox hunters in Virginia with a conclusion of: " Hocks and fetlocks go together and stifles and coffin joints go together in identifying causation(s) of lameness". Viewing the pic; one and only pic for inter webs interpretation(s), look at fetlocks LF, and thoroughpin on RH. Note Gaskin musculature on RH, a forerunner(don't excuse the punn) of stifle problems, thus coffin joint association. IMO, get a vet and a lameness exam. Farriers can only do so much with a "Sub-clinically" lame horse(s). Trying "to prevent pulled or sprung shoes" usually leads to a clinical lameness problem(s) in which the farrier "gets thrown under the bus" by trying to help the horse(s) and complying to owner(s) wishes. JME's..............................................:cool:
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    Gary Hill Active Member

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    I have come behind many that have shod barrel horses very tight because the riders claim that the horses overreach.. I end up most times hanging a lot of heel for support and deal with the hinds alittle different and sometimes the shoe pulling stops? As Bro Rick says, "It Depends".
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    gary evans old and slow

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    It's really hard to tell anything at all, shoeing wise, from the picture you have posted
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    Melissa New Member

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    I posted that picture for conformation. Conformation dictates how a horse will move. I am in no way blaming or accusing my farrier of anything. I would just like some other experienced inputs on what they have seen work. That is all. And I will not part with this mare. She has already won 10 times what I paid for her so the least I can do is make sure she is treated well and taken care of.
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    Platerforge Guest

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    what blood lines does she have? and how old is she?
    dubbed toes in the back doesn't help.
    she's muscle bound and sore all over~~~needs a DMSO-Begaliol[sp] bath and absorbine rub on the legs; standing bandages/furisin sweat bandages ect~~ you have a racehorse that needs the racehorse type care; like a racehorse. and even if she has the onset of navicular; her hocks/stifles/ankles/DIP joint could all be bothering her. also a chiro could be called in. there is also Legend injections IV by a vet to help with the joints and she should be looked at by a track vet and one who know how to inject joints. because when you are at this stage; she has to be treated more like a racehorse would be; and not a pet~~~who wouldn't need this done.
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    Melissa New Member

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    She has been to a equine specialist who works with world champion horses every day. Very reputable vet. She is 6 years old and un registered. Vet thinks she is pleasure bred. Chica is on previcox which is what is in equinox. We do non evasive acupuncture with her as well as water therapy twice a day. She's about 15 hands.
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    david a hall Moderator

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    Mellisa I find your case quite interesting, what do the feet look like, how was navicular diagnosed?
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    Melissa New Member

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    She has fantastic feet round and solid I took some pics a while back I will try to find them. The navicular was diagnosed when I took her in for vaccinations and teeth by my vet. She had some wind puffs starting so I just wanted to have her ankles checked out. When I moved her out for the vet he thought she moved odd so we took some X-rays and the showed navicular. Never hoof tested for it.
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    Lynne Vecchione New Member

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    I've held my tongue as long as I can Linda. Love you to death personally, but frankly, as a trainer, owner, rider and life long equine professional with more than just passing familiarity with blacksmithing, horseshoeing, and horse hooves in general I have to say that some of the stuff you say gives me whip lash. Please stop with all the recommendations for injections. It puts you in the ranks of the gyp, scumbag trainers I see torture the poor animals here at Penn National and other bottom level tracks every day. Injections not only help to destroy the animal, but the sport they participate in as well. There is a HUGE difference between a race horse and a barrel horse. One thing they both share is the need for good, old fashioned horsemanship. DRUGS DON'T SOLVE THE ISSUE. If they aren't sound enough to run without drugs/injections and it is that labor intensive to keep them sound THEY DESERVE TO RETIRE WHILE THEY ARE STILL SOUND ENOUGH TO HAVE A SHOT AT A MODICUM OF A USEFUL AND HAPPY LIFE. I do not run the legs off of mine nor do I inject or believe in lasix, banimine, robaxine, DMSO injections, etc, etc. It sounds to me as if the horse is getting very good care from a good and concerned owner. What difference do bloodlines make? I've seen great barrel horses with mediocre bloodlines win big money, same for horses on the track. Heart and training is what counts along with nutrition and proper care. Good shoeing counts for a lot. Even horses with crappy conformation often run like the wind. No hard and fast rule. Sooooooo, where this thread is concerned nothing above the hairline much matters. Talk about derailing a thread. Can we PLEASE just get back on topic. I agree with those above. Time to retire your babyMelissa and pleasure ride her. Give her a wonderful life, spoil her and show her your gratitude for all she did for you.
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    david a hall Moderator

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    What was the abnormality on the the x-rays?
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    Cody Gilreath Member

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    Amen, Lynne.
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    Lynne Vecchione New Member

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    Forgot to mention too that injections cause the horse to perform beyond what it normally would when allowed to feel pain non-injected. This in turn causes a higher rate and liklihood of breakdown, putting both horses and riders in harm's way. I see it all the time at Penn and lower level tracks.
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    ray steele Administrator

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    Lynne,
    Thanks for posting this, as a Farrier/blacksmith/ iron hanger of some 30 plus years, I thought I was the only one tired of the, in my opinion, non professional stuff that has been posted by Linda, to me it has bordered on practicing Medicine, this being a farrier site, I will delete any further posts that appear to be out of line by "platerforge" and ask the moderator to do the same. I will leave what has been posted so far so as to allow some info to the readers.

    sorry to all to be off topic.

    Ray
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    Platerforge Guest

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    Im done and Im gone

    Lynne V and I don't see eye to eye on this.... so this is it bye

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