Other wld w/crack from coronet

Discussion in 'Farrier Advice For Horses With Lameness Issues' started by regala, Jun 5, 2014.

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    regala New Member

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    hoping for advice on treatment and shoeing for this mare. brief history:

    purchased 6yr old tb mare in march 2011

    was told by prior owner she was in an xc accident, and cracked RF hoof at coronet, to toe. installed metal plate for support, and was off work and lame for 3 months and had recently come pasture sound.

    crack was approx 1/2cm wide and through hoof wall, but no sign of bacteria/fungus, so present owner/farrier filled with epoxy to keep sealed (as i recall was the main purpose), and to add strength. crack grew out with less depth and became tighter over the next year, plate and epoxy removed after 6 months approx, and horse has been sound for 3yrs since, although crack is always present. recently (spring 2014) crack appeared to deepen, and at farrier visit upon opening found extensive wld, and also in both heels.

    mare was track trained, but never started. bought as 3/4yr old by eventing trainer, who started, trained, and competed in jumpers and xc to pt, until accident.

    mare also had severe wither sores and pressure sores which resolved promptly with properly fitted tack and blankets, and massage/chiro.

    since purchase as 6yr old, has been lightly ridden on soft footing (hogfuel/sand/pasture) to avoid concussion (has had the past winter off). high strung but well behaved, and no significant health issues. shod fronts, and trimmed every 6-7 weeks by same farrier. has lived in same mgmt of in/out stall to pasture, but moved to a different farm w/same setup 1yr ago. only kept inside for short periods (4-6hrs) daily, but mare chooses to spend most of her time inside. pasture in lower mainland is wet throughout winter/spring. 2 horses on 5 acres rotated in 2-3 sections.

    approx 7 weeks ago pulled shoe on LF, repeated 2x in following 4 weeks. shoes appear to be pulled at inside, either from overreaching or stepping on LF with RF, in sand paddock area. bell boots put on approx 3 weeks ago.

    this week at farrier visit which was 1 week overdue, found excessive wld in both heels, and front crack after opening area as it crack looked deeper than in past. farrier re-installed metal plate and cleaned up most of the necrotic tissue and recommended second opinion as he'd not had experience with this issue.

    aware that heel is underrun, and likely has been for some time, which i missed and understand it may contribute to problem. have been told by farriers and vets crack will always stay, but hoping to get her back to where it is tight w/no disease.

    waiting for vet to come tomorrow to x-ray and assess.

    TIMELINE:
    jan 2011 - injury to coronet resulting in crack and lameness, metal plate installed
    march 2011 - horse sound and put slowly to light work - crack filled, no evidence of diseased tissue
    winter 2011 - plate and acrylic removed, foot stayed stable and horse stayed sound
    may 2014 - pulled LF shoe 3 times, bell boots put on horse
    june 2014 - found excessive wld in both heels and crack of RF

    have added pics taken yesterday of all 4 feet (apologize they aren't the best shots). can add others if needed, and appreciate any advice i can use to help us with the mare.

    http://s135.photobucket.com/user/bunnytron/library/bailey

    thank you.
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    david a hall Moderator

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    I'll take a look in a bit..
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    regala New Member

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    thank you, i appreciate it.

    should add, mare is still at least pasture sound (has had winter off and any work now is put on hold obviously). mild occassional heat, but no obvious pain for now.

    i put this in lameness as i wasn't sure it was general, or conformation related. hope that's ok.

    also i believe farrier's decision to not fully resect and debride was that he didn't want to take off too much depending how extensive, that we couldn't get a shoe on. also, decision to put regular shoe rather than full support due to recent pulling of other front, and concern over keeping shoe on (thus the smaller shoe).

    any more info that is helpful i can add. or pics. hopefully can add x-rays tomorrow as well.

    thanks again.
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    david a hall Moderator

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    Doesn't look a disaster, the steps taken to keep the shoes on like the pencilled heels and shoeing short will only exacerbate the situation. Is the weather improving?
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    regala New Member

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    disaster enough for me. yes, weather better, right now have her penned in dry stall, dry sand paddock, and small dry grass paddock. but dew at night. still gets a bit of dirt in the heels. will lock her in stall if needed, but vet said ok to turnout for now. we will get rainy days, usually not til july/august that we have a dustbowl in the pasture.
    thanks!
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    ray steele Administrator

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    regala,

    since you mentioned "vet", .what was that professionals read on the situation?

    Regards

    Ray
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    regala New Member

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    hi ray, don't know yet, he is coming tomorrow am, along with a more experienced farrier than mine to x ray and assess it. just from speaking on phone when we found this 2 days ago, he had ok'd turnout on drier area. i will update with rads and opinion tomorrow, but hoped to get some advice so i may know of any questions i should be asking, before any work is done.
    thanks.
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    regala New Member

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    to add a little more, i am not a fruitloop (well mostly not) looking for someone here to tell me what to tell my fruitloop farrier to do based on a whim/ internet advice.

    i do have very good professional help coming tomorrow, as my farrier (which i really respect), has said this is beyond his scope of experience. i have researched wld of course, and understand the normal protocols for treating.

    because of the extent right up the center, thinking it may be slightly different in terms of wether or not to fill (which we may need to in order to shoe), and what type of shoeing or other options may be viable.

    i obviously have screwed up royally not seeing this coming, and got complacent in not asking more questions and being on top of the farrier work done over the past 3 yrs. because this is new to me, and want to understand, and know there will be pros and cons of different options, would like to know ahead what things i should be asking, or possibly bringing up that you all may have had experience that vet and farrier haven't.

    i will of course have to trust them, but want to make sure no ideas are missed before they hack away more hoof, and don't want any other decisions on my part to negatively affect the horse. my daughter and i adore her and feel horrible.

    other questions i have will likely come after, but there does seem to be differing opinions on things like turnout, frequency of treating with antibacterial/antifungal agents, frequency of cleaning/soaking, diet/supplements, fill/no fill, shoe type... etc etc.

    any advice that will help me do the best for her and ask the right questions tomorrow would be very appreciated. thanks in advance if anyone has opinions.
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    Western Hill Forge Active Member

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    Filling the crack is an option IF there is no more bacteria present. There are several products you can soak the hoof in to kill bacteria. I prefer White Lightning, but some folks have god results with Clean Trax. Sealing in anaerobic bacteria with any filler is a big no-no. Filling may not be necessary. Options include quarter clipped shoes to hold the crack together, and a bar shoe with a pour pad to redistribute some of the weight to the frog and sole. Turnout is better for your horse if possible, unless wet conditions are prevalent.

    Regards
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    david a hall Moderator

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    I look forward to the vet and new farrier report...
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    regala New Member

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    rick, thank you very much for the input.

    xrays showed no rotation, but very shallow sole depth. toe crack originating from coronary band separating distally, extending relatively superfically into laminae.

    debrided most, but couldn't get too close to coronary band, so left open and recommended correcting under run heel, shoeing to stabilize foot, and to keep foot dry and clean, and apply tincture of iodine daily.

    i've added pics of shoeing from today.

    http://s135.photobucket.com/user/bunnytron/library/bailey/baileyjune6shoes?sort=9&page=1

    i'm concerned the shoe won't stay on, but hoping it will. any thoughts, advice or opinions, as this will obviously be a long road to getting her right. thanks.
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    david a hall Moderator

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    That looks a good job.
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    regala New Member

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    so still hoping for some advice. it's been 6 weeks, and she's been sore the entire time to varying degrees. pulled the shoe twice. bent the other shoe. possibly abscessed. farrier is getting sick of us i'm sure. yesterday put in a wedge with frog support pad and regular shoe, as he's thinking last plan with heartbar wasn't getting results he hoped for. here are rads from june 6th, prior to applying heartbar but after trimming. really hope someone can give me some good advice as endless buting and watching the horse lame is really breaking my heart.
    http://www.dicom911.com/clienttools...153-49ac-4448-acdd-c7bbe5b5d369&recipID=27602
    i'm seeing the misalignment laterally and at p1-2, but farrier and vet seemed more concerned about how close coffin is to sole. any thoughts?
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    david a hall Moderator

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    How is it losing the shoe? That needs to be ELIMINATED. I do lots of stuff like your horse, if it loses shoes it won't improve. It may get worse. Losing shoes MUST be eliminated completely. Losing shoes is a welfare issue in its own right. Sorry but it's my pet hate, farrier does his best, uses all his skill, shoe gets pulled!!!! If you want a sound horse do every thing in power up to and including moving the horse. It must not pull remedial shoes ever......
    Correctly fitting overreach boots, not leaving it in the fied while it's mate is removed, if it's a fence walker don't put it out, if it goes bananas then don't put it out!!!!! Etc
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    regala New Member

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    she's losing shoes by stepping on herself with her opposite front foot, including with boots.
    i know the way to keep a shoe on would be as original farrier did, with shoes too small, but that is counterproductive as you've said and will worsen the underrun heel issue.
    she's much more comfortable with the styrofoam package i put on when she loses the shoe, but realize that's not an ideal alternative either. mare has dry stall with access to attached sand and grass paddock. vet and farrier both recommend turnout for movement as opposed to complete stall rest.
    any ideas that may help her?
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    david a hall Moderator

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    Sometimes on repeated shoe pullers by standing on them selves I coat the inside of the hoof with filler to protect the clenches. Also a round the web of the shoe to make an edge that won't tread the opposing shoe. Also the overreach boot fit is critical, they want to reach the ground when the horse is standing on concrete, and sometimes two overreach boots on each foot.
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    ray steele Administrator

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    there is a bell boot made, i think in italy ,that is very hard/firm plastic pieces that overlap, similar to armor, i don t have a name /manufacturer, they woyuld be ideal for what you describe as a shoe pulling deterrent.

    ray
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Horse stepping on itself with opposite foot is ABNORMAL. I would have a veterinarian investigate the situation. It could be neurological or pain related. Meanwhile it appears that your new farrier is doing a much better job with the hammer than the last one. Though I would gently encourage him to work on his skill at boxing and safeing with the electric grinder. ;-)
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    regala New Member

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    thanks for the boot suggestions, will see if i can find the hard shell ones, or talk to farrier about fill.
    yes, i'm aware it's not normal, one of the reasons i'm worried. vet and farrier think from pain/numbness, and from misalignment in left front.
    attaching pics from 2 days ago. i'm hoping someone can point out a. what could have been done better so i can discuss with farrier, and b. any additional ideas.
    http://s135.photobucket.com/user/bu...ly16/july16-1_zps4d437ca0.jpg.html?sort=9&o=0
    my trainer felt her hinds could be better supported in hopes she'd get them under herself more, and shift her balance back a bit and off the fronts, and since i was also concerned about crushed heels with the wedge pad, had farrier shoe backs as well yesterday.
    if anyone has any other advice i really would appreciate it. thank you.
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    Stef Member

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    Hi, I definitely agree with Tom - do you have any other issues with this horse (refuses to bend to one side, not standing square etc)? In which area do you live in? Did your vet do a neurological exam?

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