Bleeding Crack

Tom read post 7, 16, and 34

What else should he do pay for the X-rays too.

Do you have a specific point to make here?

Nah, but Gary Evans might do that.

Recommendations have been made and were not carried out by the vet. Conversations were made via telephone with second vet, recommendations were not carried out. Recommendations were made to the owner and were not carried out.

Either the vet is incompetent or feels the situation doesn't warrant any further diagnostics, the decision is the attending vets responsibility not the farriers.

Assuming worst case scenario and applying an orthotic for worst case scenario of your own accord without vet recommendation is diagnosing and treating, which is illegal for a farrier in this country.

I try to stress to my customers that the cheapest and fastest way to fix their horse is proper diagnostics. Some take the advice and some don't.

Recommendations or requests? Rhetorically, why were they not carried out?

According to the litany/time line presented, what is your understanding of why that occurred?

What leads you to that conclusion?

Medically speaking, I agree. The decision as to whether to participate or not was the farrier's.

Using that premise, in the USA, could it not be construed as illegal to trim and apply an orthotic to any hoof, regardless, if no vet recommendation is first made?

And let me be clear about something. I think that Mikel did an outstanding job of dealing with the situation at hand. He is to be commended for what he accomplished. Under those same trying circumstances, I don't know if I would have been willing to do what he did.

I agree, with the caveat that I don't use the words "cheap" or "cheapest", preferring to instead use "Least expensive"

I wouldn't pay for them, but if I had the equipment I'd do them for free (if you flew me over, paid accommodation expenses, took me out on your boat and gave me a lot of beer...)

Passive voice - your sentence has no subject.

. . . Post#7
"We decided on the protocal to use." Seems to be a collaboration as Mikel speaks in first person plural.
"I did advise her to get an x-ray as there could be P3 damage." Seems to not involve the vet as Mikel used the first person singular.

It is not clear to me whether or not the vet on site or the vet on the phone agreed or disagreed with Mikel's recommendation for radiographs.

I think you are agreeing with me in this statement, but above and below you seem to have the facts confused in regards to how Mikel related them.

"We decided on the protocal to use." Seems to be a collaboration as Mikel speaks in first person plural. Seems you missed this detail and it has affected your take on the situation.

Medical first aid rendered in the field in a triage situation . . . Look up "Good Samaritan Law."

OK.

kin hell Mikel shod the horse up , did a sound safe job , owner and vet are happy , whats with all the BS

Tom I'm not sure why you recommended he should have another conversation with the vet when any further treatment is basically out of his job description as a farrier

Justin, because it was (is STILL) not clear to me whether or not the vet(s) agreed with the recommendation Mikel made for radiographs as followup. There should be some kind of followup plan recommended by the vet, i.e. scheduling an appointment to return in a few days or however long to make an assessment of how things are going. If the vet has no followup plan and the horse requires further attention from a farrier (assuming it survives) then WHO is deciding the future medical treatment?

That's why I suggested a private conversation with the vet - because I wouldn't want to work on this kind of injury at a followup appointment unless I had some assurance that the vet was indeed taking ownership of the medical treatment. If the vet agrees with the owner that x-rays are not needed, then I want them to tell me that and explain why. Conversely if the vet agrees with me that x-rays are needed, then we both are in a situation where the owner has tied our hands and limited our resources for treating the horse.

If the vet and farrier are united IN PRINCIPLE for the good of the horse, then the owner is not just going against the farrier's recommendation, but going against the TEAM recommendation. If the vet does not consider me as part of a treatment team and we have no agreement on a plan for future treatment, then I'm off the case - PERIOD.

.....but is the horse gonna be happy in the long run..

This case was screwed from get go..mikel got put in a bad spot not by owner buy by the vet..any vet should have said haul the horse in or I'm Comming out..if the horse could stand for a shoe he can trailer ..I've seen way way worse trailer a lot farther to a clinic...mikel was in a tuff spot everyone is looking to him to do something..

I think everyone will agree and so will I it was a tough spot, but an emergency. I wouldn't have trailered the horse, but there are so many vets with portable x-ray today, even here that was easy to over come. I was a little suprised at vet at the horse hospital I talked to in reguards to the fact he didn't advise x-rays. I have worked with him many times and he is a very good horse vet, that's why I was suprised.

I have since called the owner of the place the horse is stabled at. She tells me the horse is still lame, but is going the right way. No infections yet (knock on wood) and she said today he is able to put a little weight on it. I again advised x-rays before I come again. I'm going to guess many of you have been in this position or will be in this position. My only saving grace is the vet on site at the time accepted the responsibiliyty for the horse, that eased my legal mind, but in the back of my head, I still want to really see what I am dealing with.

Ur right I been in that spot...I'm not one to walk away..I can't say that i would have done one single thing different..you where put in a tuff spot..you done what you could with what you had to go on..

Thanks Travis, I appreciate it. We all know that sometimes our job is a thankless, tough position, but the big thing to me is what's best for the horse.

Mikel is this one of your regular clients?

Yes Tom, it is.

In my neck of the woods you do much pounding on your chest and walking away from customers because you feel your not part of the team, you won't have many horses to shoe.

Shoe the horse the best you can with what you have to work with, learn from it , get paid and move on.

Walking away is truly not the best thing for a crippled horse. If we are supposed to be in it to help the horse.

Most that I've seen that get mad and walk away because they can't get X-rays etc. don't have the skills to be working on the horse anyways!