uses of the patten shoe

Discussion in 'Shoeing Horses with Lameness Issues' started by DeniseMc, Aug 6, 2013.

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    brian robertson Active Member

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    I prefer convincing the owner to put these poor things down and buy a sound horse.

    unless you can get these dsld horses to just barely pick their feet up off the ground for trimming/shoeing; you end up doing a flexion test on the poor bastards and then they're really sore; sometimes non weight bearing for 5-10 min.
    brian robertson, Aug 11, 2013
    #61
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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    Touch 'em boss- charge the money- we know......" $75 to attempt" will fill the truck w/fuel: the pony has been dead months ago......:notworthy:
    WOW! the crossroads....been there done that.... money or customer realizations.... Sorrry for the Eceletic rambles.... but wtf... money.mah=nage pony and manage owner?
    Mr. Perry, Aug 11, 2013
    #62
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    brian robertson Active Member

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    I can do the "charge 'em till you like 'em" ordinarily, if it's just the owner/horse I have an issue with or it's those western pleasure(?) P of S. But those cripples, that ones you really can't help, I just don't need the money that bad any more. I, no longer want any part of the "just keep 'em alive 'cause they're a meal ticket" , "we can learn something on this one", or business is slow crap...
    brian robertson, Aug 11, 2013
    #63
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    Gary Hill Active Member

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    Ever think that the prices of good horses would go up if they got rid of the truly lame ones...Slaughter the Horseowners Best Friend..
    Gary Hill, Aug 12, 2013
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    Eric Russell Active Member

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    Western Hill, I also trim toe which wouldn't make anatomical sense, egg bars, fishtail, wedges.... None of them make anatomical sense if your only goal is to transfer stress from the suspensory ligament.

    Taking a horse barefoot so his toe can wear down also wouldn't make anatomical sense.

    I also like wraps around the fetlock which also wouldn't make anatomical sense.
    Eric Russell, Aug 12, 2013
    #65
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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    We all have issues of dealin' with owners. "money" yep we need it to feed the babies. Boss, the late evenin's when the bills are paid, "mamma is happy'. What are you tryin' to teach me pony?" A little esoteric but WTF....insert a Jamesomes'..........
    Mr. Perry, Aug 12, 2013
    #66
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    Western Hill Forge Active Member

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    To resurrect an old thread, I've been thinking about the use of a patten bar for DSLD ( degenerative suspensory ligament desmitis for David :) ) since I heard of it. I could never understand why applying a mechanical device that would normally raise the pastern angle, thus putting more strain on the suspensory, could possibly help an injured suspensory.

    Lately I've been thinking about it more, because I have a horse on the books that basically broke down over a 72 hour period. I'm pretty sure it's DSLD, but I had them call the vet. She came up with injury, but after discussing it, I think she is on board with the DSLD, although we can't totally abandon the injury theory, for obvious reasons.

    I think I may have come up with a "theory" as to why a patten bar, or wedging up the heels for that matter, might help to make a DSLD horse comfortable. If it was an injury to the suspensory, you wouldn't want to stress the ligament, so raising the heels would be a bad idea. But in the case of DSLD, you actually have a ligament that has broken down, and can no longer do it's job. Essentially, the ligament has become too loose/long. So.... jacking up the heels would tighten up the ligament which might be a good thing.

    I'm going to see the horse Monday ( my day off :( ). Currently my plan is to apply a fish heeled shoe, with 2 drilled and tapped holes, to which I can bolt a few layers of aluminum bar stock, in effect giving me an adjustable height patten bar. This plan is subject to change over the weekend, as it has several times already.

    A lot of the posters from the original thread have disappeared since last year, but if any of you are still around, I would appreciate your thoughts, along with the folks who have hung in there with us. I think I could make for some good discussion.

    Regards
    Western Hill Forge, Nov 14, 2014
    #67
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    david a hall Moderator

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    Il have a think about what you have said.
    david a hall, Nov 14, 2014
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    Western Hill Forge Active Member

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    Thanks David. As I said, I've been wrestling with the concept for quite some time. Now I have to make some kind of decision.

    Regards
    Western Hill Forge, Nov 15, 2014
    #69
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    smitty88 Well-Known Member

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    Why dont you have ago at a patten bar rick?
    smitty88, Nov 15, 2014
    #70
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    Western Hill Forge Active Member

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    I've made a couple Smitty, just for fun. I will admit I'm not very good at it. Although it might be good for me, I'm trying to figure out if it would be good for the horse. Any thoughts on that?

    Regards
    Western Hill Forge, Nov 15, 2014
    #71
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    brian robertson Active Member

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    I think you are going to witness a partial/total subluxation of the pastern joint
    brian robertson, Nov 15, 2014
    #72
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    david a hall Moderator

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    Just read this.....
    2. Egg bar support with wedging to comfort. Patten shoes can be used behind (4). This gives immediate relief. Horses are gradually lowered as level of comfort improves. Recent research shows that raising the angle loads the dorsal branches of the suspensory ligament itself (5). Clinically the horses show great relief from pain with the angle elevated. Although this shoeing philosophy is controversial, the horse clinically improves in comfort and the ultrasound confirms "healing" of the affected area of the suspensory ligaments, although once again, it heals with cartilage.
    david a hall, Nov 15, 2014
    #73
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    david a hall Moderator

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    This is interesting..........

    There are many different diseases that can affect the ligaments. Ligament diseases, also known as connective tissue diseases, are classified into one of three types. Diseases that target ligaments are collagen-vascular, genetic, or degenerative. Most connective tissue diseases are auto-immune, which means that the immune system is triggered and causes inflammation that leads to damage in the body’s connective tissue.

    Collagen-vascular causes of ligament diseases cause repeated instances of inflammation. The chronic inflammation damages ligaments because the fibers are continuously stretched. This causes weakness as the collagen that allows ligaments to stretch becomes so stretched that it loses elasticity. Collagen and ligaments are most commonly damaged in this type of connective tissue disease as a result of an abnormality in blood vessels. Rheumatic fever, systemic sclerosis, and systemic lupus erythematosis are examples of collagen-vascular connective tissue diseases.

    Genetic ligament diseases are types of connective tissue diseases that are inherited. Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and Marfan syndrome are two common inherited connective tissue diseases. In patients with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, abnormal genes cause a production of proteins that destroy collagen and lead to weakened ligaments. Patients with Marfan syndrome have connective tissues that are loose and do not function properly.

    Degenerative ligament diseases are the types of connective tissue diseases that take time to show symptoms and progress with time as well. Scurvy is an example of this category. This disease results from a vitamin C deficiency. The lack of vitamin C causes a reduction in the amount of collagen that the body produces. Without the collagen, ligaments can be damaged easily.

    Collagen is like a glue that holds the fibers of ligaments together. It also allows ligaments to stretch as necessary for the body’s movements. When collagen is affected by ligament diseases, the ligaments are more vulnerable. This vulnerability can lead to an injured ligament.

    Vulnerable ligaments and weak or absent collagen can present many problems for a person who has a ligament disease. Although a sore ligament is due to a strained ligament, it is also possible that the pain can result from a torn ligament. In extreme cases of damage, such as a ruptured ligament, ligament surgery may be necessary to repair the damage.

    Diagnosing ligament disease can be difficult. A person may suffer from a recurring ligament problem, such as tears, without any logical reason. Blood tests can check for some types of connective tissue disease, and imaging tests, such as magnetic resonance imaging, can provide pictures for doctors to see ligaments without relying on unnecessary or invasive procedures. Based on the type of ligament disease and each individual patient’s symptoms, doctors can provide ligament treatments to deal with the symptoms and problems that may occur.
    david a hall, Nov 15, 2014
    #74
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    chris bunting Well-Known Member

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    David do you think that by using a patten bar shoe it might be detrimental to the extensors ?
    chris bunting, Nov 15, 2014
    #75
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    david a hall Moderator

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    No, the extensor is not under strain during the loaded phase of the stride. Only increase in strain would be the weight of the shoe as he leg is draw forward.
    david a hall, Nov 15, 2014
    #76
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    smitty88 Well-Known Member

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    Rick to be honest I have made 2 and fitted them 20 years ago I cant rember for the life of me what problem was . Vet wanted them, I rember the horse was box rested for 8 weeks or so
    the horse did come good.
    smitty88, Nov 15, 2014
    #77
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    smitty88 Well-Known Member

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    Rick what did you end up doing with the horse on monday?
    smitty88, Nov 19, 2014
    #78
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    Western Hill Forge Active Member

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    First I taped 2 #3 wedges on the toe of each foot. Then I removed them and taped them to the heels. The horse seemed more comfortable with the wedges taped ton the toe, so I lowered the heels and took a pair of aluminum egg bars 2 sizes too big, and made them into kind of an extended heel egg bar. The horse seemed to walk comfortably in them. Time will tell. 010.JPG

    Regards
    Western Hill Forge, Nov 20, 2014
    #79
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    smitty88 Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff
    smitty88, Nov 20, 2014
    #80
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