USA VOTE

Bill Adams · Nov 10, 2012

Justin Decker said: ↑

Actually it was kind of a trick, that water contains iron which is why it is orange. .

I knew something was amiss when I saw the shadow of a Farrier rig.

As to windmills, they can not ever generate as much power as it takes to build, transport, install, maintain and rebuild. Ask T. Boon Pickens how well they work. Any power company is only installing them because of government mandates or government subsidies or both.

Kim Turner · Nov 10, 2012

Very informative. About the Federal Reserve.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM&sns=em

Mikel Dawson · Nov 10, 2012

Steven Comer said: ↑

I'm not big on posting on the internet, dont have facebook or any other internet social networking. I do look around on this site somewhat often. But this election has really gotten me fired me up. Obama in MY OPINION, is a fraudulent fool. No other president in U.S. history has raised the national debt even remotely close as much as he has. Quite frankly lowering the taxes for the wealthy is not a horrible action. The wealthy are the ones that create the jobs and put money into this economy. If you raise the taxes on the wealthy they will just start spending less money which will cause the plan to backfire. Why should the those that have busted their butts to have what they have give their money to a bunch of lazy government funded welfare sucking slobs. Is it right for someone to sit on their lazy butts with a free cell phone and top shelf food reap the rewards from us that work...Heck no... In America the top 1% of earners pay roughly 43% of the nations federal income taxes, which is nearly double what they paid in the 1980's. Roughly 46% of U.S. households DO NOT pay any income taxes. Obama said in a speech, ""Look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own", bull hockey. I did not come from a wealthy family. When i left the Air Force i didnt hardly have a dime to name and was married with 1 child. When i started building my farrier business i didnt take hand outs from anyone. So how the heck did the goverment build my business; they didnt, i did. I had a thing that has been lost, it's called PRIDE. Being a proud U.S. veteran i am sickened with the events that took place in bengahzi. As far as i am concerned he should be tried for treason and the murder of those people. Posted is an address that shows an interview with Tyrone Woods' father. Tyrone was the navy seal that lost his life saving others in the bengahzi ordeal. Be sure to watch both parts. " This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave." ~Elmer Davis
http://www.therightscoop.com/glenn-...ather-of-fallen-former-navy-seal-in-benghazi/

Totally agree Steve.

DeniseMc · Nov 11, 2012

I did not serve during the Vietnam years as things were slowing winding down when I was 18. I did hear something today that really disturbed me tho...that our Military was NOT allowed to Vote? Is that a common thing or what??? Floored to say the least!!

Depends-If they were younger than 21, regardless of whether they were serving in the military, no, they could not vote, prior to 1971. They could be drafted and shipped off to fight a war at 18, but not allowed to vote. That changed in 1971 when legal age was lowered to 18. US involvement in Vietnam War ended in 1973, so they would have been allowed to vote in Presidential election of '72, which Nixon won and later resigned to avoid impeachment...."I am not a crook"
Prior to 1970, the minimum legal drinking age was 21. Some states lowered it between 1970 and 1975, to 18, 19 or 20. Back then a teenager could be forced to fight a war, yet not be allowed to vote or legally drink a beer....

Mikel Dawson · Nov 11, 2012

DeniseMc said: ↑

Depends-If they were younger than 21, regardless of whether they were serving in the military, no, they could not vote, prior to 1971. They could be drafted and shipped off to fight a war at 18, but not allowed to vote. That changed in 1971 when legal age was lowered to 18. US involvement in Vietnam War ended in 1973, so they would have been allowed to vote in Presidential election of '72, which Nixon won and later resigned to avoid impeachment...."I am not a crook"
Prior to 1970, the minimum legal drinking age was 21. Some states lowered it between 1970 and 1975, to 18, 19 or 20. Back then a teenager could be forced to fight a war, yet not be allowed to vote or legally drink a beer....

Denise, the problem is not age, but many times where they are deployed, mail delivery and the problem of getting ballots out to the soldiers early enough to be returned in time to vote. There have been times where mail has been "lost" on the way back. I still have not received a package I sent home from Bosnia in 1996!!

DeniseMc · Nov 11, 2012

Mikel,
Gary's question was whether Military personnel were not allowed to vote during the Vietnam era. If they were not 21 prior to 1971--they could not even cast a vote. In 2012 there is not the age issue for Military personnel like there was prior to 1971..

Well, here's a funny story from Buzzfeed about Mitt Romney: Back when he was a young, impressionable college student at Stanford, he was a Vietnam war protester.
Oh, he didn't protest against the war; he protested against the anti-war protesters:

Carey Coulter, a conservative and anti-Communist student who had spent time as a civilian in Vietnam, was outraged and organized a counter-protest. [...]
As the roughly 150 counter-protesters held signs and chatted with passing students, a tall, neatly-dressed 19-year old Coulter had never seen before approached him.
"He walked up to me and said that he had some experience with the press, and that he would handle the press for me if I wanted him to," Coulter recalled. "I said fine, because I was busy running the demonstration."
Naturally, Mitt Romney supported the Vietnam war. Alas:

Romney did not, however, serve in Vietnam. As a Mormon missionary, he was considere[d] "'a minister of religion'' by the church and was exempt from the draft.
Convenient for Mitt, wasn't it? He voiced his "ardent support" of other kids going off to die in Vietnam, but, darn the luck, his religion required him to go live in a palace in France:

But the Republican presidential hopeful spent a significant portion of his 30-month mission in a Paris mansion described by fellow American missionaries to The Daily Telegraph as “palace”. It featured stained glass windows, chandeliers, and an extensive art collection. It was staffed by two servants – a Spanish chef and a houseboy.
No doubt Romney wanted to go fight in the war he supported so much that he graciously offered his expert media services to the anti-anti-war protesters, but, tragically, he had to oversee his servants in his Parisian palace. And then he had so much studying to do:

Before and after his missionary deferment, Romney also received nearly three years of deferments for his academic studies.
Aw, shucks. Don't you just hate it when your studies get in the way of fighting in a war? Poor Dick Cheney had that same problem.
This little tale does prove one thing, though. Turns out Mitt Romney does have a core conviction after all, and it's one he's somehow managed to hold without flip-flopping for more than 40 years: He's always willing to screw over the 99 percent so he can enjoy his life of luxury.

Mikel Dawson · Nov 11, 2012

DeniseMc said: ↑

Mikel,
Gary's question was whether Military personnel were not allowed to vote during the Vietnam era. If they were not 21 prior to 1971--they could not even cast a vote. In 2012 there is not the age issue for Military personnel like there was prior to 1971..

Denise you need to really read what he wrote, I quote, "I did not serve during the Vietnam years as things were slowing winding down when I was 18. I did hear something today that really disturbed me tho...that our Military was NOT allowed to Vote? Is that a common thing or what??? Floored to say the least!!"

What he was saying is he didn't serve in Vietnam. Then he changes the subject bring up the fact that our Military was not allowed to vote. Nothing about not voting in Vietnam. Read, he heard something and the key word is "Today".

DeniseMc · Nov 11, 2012

A failure to communicate. So why would he bring up Vietnam, not serving, 18 years old.. if he wasn't asking the question in reference to that? ........... Gary?

Or maybe Gary is referring to this?:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...9cf76ac-e080-11e1-8fc5-a7dcf1fc161d_blog.html

Is Obama challenging voting privileges of Ohio military members?

“President Obama’s lawsuit claiming it is unconstitutional for Ohio to allow servicemen and women extended early voting privileges during the state’s early voting period is an outrage … If I’m entrusted to be the commander in chief, I’ll work to protect the voting rights of our military, not undermine them.”
-- Facebook message from GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney, Aug. 4, 2012
“In their lawsuit, the Obama campaign and the DNC argue it is ‘arbitrary’ and unconstitutional to provide three extra days of early, in-person voting to military voters and their families. At least 20 times in their legal papers, they argue that there is no good reason to give special flexibility to military voters – and that this policy adopted by the Ohio legislature is so wrong it is unconstitutional.”
-- Memo from Katie Biber, general counsel for the Romney campaign, Aug. 5, 2012

These statements concern a lawsuit that Democrats filed against Ohio’s secretary of state and attorney general to stop a new law that pushes the state’s early voting deadline back by three days for everyone except military personnel and their families. The measure, which was passed by a Republican-controlled legislature in 2011, changed a previously uniform deadline for all residents of the Buckeye State.
Ohio is a closely contested battleground state where the presidential candidates need every vote they can get to win the 2012 election. The state went to Barack Obama in 2008, with more than 1.4 million Ohio voters casting their ballots early, according to the United States Election Project of George Mason University.
Right-wing bloggers have weighed in on the Democratic lawsuit, with Breitbart saying that the president was seeking to “restrict [service members’] ability to vote in the upcoming election.” The Romney campaign fed that notion with its recent comments.
Plaintiffs in this case include Obama’s campaign, the Democratic National Committee and the Ohio Democratic Party. Meanwhile, a group of 15 fraternal military organizations filed a motion last week seeking to add themselves to the list of defendants officially fighting the suit.
We read the court documents for this case and researched Ohio’s new voting law to determine whether Romney and his campaign’s general counsel hit the mark with their comments. Does the Democratic lawsuit really try to undermine the voting rights of service members, arguing, as Biber contends, that “there is no good reason to give special flexibility to military voters – and that this policy adopted by the Ohio legislature is so wrong it is unconstitutional”?

The Facts

Ohio changed its voting laws after the 2004 election, allowing voters to cast early ballots until the Monday before Election Day — mainly to prevent long lines at polling stations. Obama seems to have benefitted from this during his 2008 presidential run, as many African-American churches drove congregants to the polls after Sunday services.
The state’s Republican-controlled legislature passed a series of voting laws in 2011, bumping the deadline for most residents back to the preceding Friday. But there was a problem: the measures contained conflicting deadlines for military personnel and their families, who benefit from the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voter Act.
Ohio’s secretary of state resolved the matter by clarifying that the previous Monday deadline would still apply to service members. The Democratic plaintiffs contend that this “disparate treatment” of voters is unconstitutional under the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. In other words, they think everyone in the state should have the same deadline.
The military groups argue that a win by the Democrats could set a precedent against all special voting rules for military personnel and their families, particularly the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voter Act, which ensures that active service members have an opportunity to vote despite obligations such as overseas deployments and training outside their precincts. They also don’t want Ohio lawmakers to respond by shortening the voting period for service members, although the state could avoid that by extending the deadline for civilians and leaving the military date alone.
Indeed, that’s what the Democrats want. The first sentence of their complaint makes clear that the goal of the lawsuit is to “restore in-person early voting for all Ohioans during the three days prior to Election Day -- a right exercised by an estimated 93,000 Ohioans in the last presidential election.” Never does the filing mention stripping away privileges from service members.
Furthermore, the Democratic complaint expresses unequivocal support for the military deadline, stating that “the Secretary of State appropriately resolved the conflict between the two in-person voting deadlines for UOCAVA voters in favor of the more generous time period.”
The takeaway is that the Obama campaign likes the later deadline but wants it applied to all Ohio voters.
Romney suggested that the Democratic complaint undermines the rights of military members. But the military groups essentially conceded that this is not the express purpose of the lawsuit. Here’s an excerpt from their filing:

“Although the relief Plaintiffs seek is an overall extension of Ohio’s early voting period, the means through which Plaintiffs are attempting to attain it -- a ruling that is arbitrary and unconstitutional to grant extra time for early voting solely to military voters and overseas citizens -- is both legally inappropriate and squarely contrary to the legal interests and constitutional rights of Intervenors, their members, and the courageous men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces.”

Translation: the Democrats only want to extend the civilian deadline, but their legal arguments could be used to deny military voters of special privileges -- collateral damage.
At the end of the day, the Romney campaign has to rely on a slippery slope argument. But there’s really no end to how far politicians can carry this type of logic. Besides, the fact remains that the Democratic lawsuit does not seek to change voting privileges for service members.
Romney worded his statement rather carefully in a way that stops short of accusing the president of purposely trying to limit military voting rights, but the nuance of his remarks will be lost on the average voter.
As for the memo from Katie Biber, who serves as general counsel to the Romney campaign, the plaintiffs’ argument of arbitrariness and unconstitutionality relates only to Ohio’s exclusion of civilians from the later voting deadline, not to the privilege granted to service members. Here’s what the complaint says:

“Whether caused by legislative error or partisanship motivation, the result of this legislative process is arbitrary and inequitable treatment of similarly situated Ohio voters with respect to in-person early voting.”

Again, the emphasis throughout the Democratic complaint is that Ohio should protect the Equal Protection Clause by ordering the state to extend the later deadline to civilian voters. Biber took license in applying the plaintiff’s argument more broadly, suggesting that the Democratic argument of unconstitutionality pertains to the special privileges for service members.
Admittedly, we’re talking about two sides of the same coin, but both Romney and Biber misrepresented the true language and intent of the lawsuit.

The Pinocchio Test

Romney’s statement suggests that the president is undermining the voting rights of Ohio service members. But the lawsuit in question would not change the deadline one way or another for military voters. It simply requests an order for the state to extend its civilian deadline.
The lawsuit doesn’t describe the military privilege as unconstitutional or arbitrary, which is what Romney and Biber suggested. Instead it uses that argument against the separate deadline for civilian voters, in what the Obama campaigns appears to believe is an attempt to supress African-American turnout.

Mikel Dawson · Nov 11, 2012

DeniseMc said: ↑

A failure to communicate. So why would he bring up Vietnam, not serving, 18 years old.. if he wasn't asking the question in reference to that? ........... Gary?

Or maybe Gary is referring to this?:

Now you got it!!

david a hall · Nov 11, 2012

Clinton was great to, we liked him nearly as much as Obama, but that Hillary gets on my nerves, not surprising he had to get Monica to sack his cook. Michele is much nicer.

DeniseMc · Nov 13, 2012

Hilary was my choice in the 2008 primary; did not vote for either Obama or McCain in the 2008. I think the choice of Palin really killed it for the Republicans back then and still McCain defends Palin as the better choice (over Romney) as his running mate. hmmmmmm......

david a hall · Nov 13, 2012

Are yes that Sarah Palin, Strangely alluring in a scary way.

Justin Decker · Nov 13, 2012

Denise how much do you think things are going to cost when drilling is put out of business and coal fired power plants. I do like the pictures though of the mine pollution, it's funny that they are always pics of mines prior to the legislation we have today. Not saying that accidents don't happen, but I have first hand experience in mining and power plants. For some reason I never saw the things that people claim. Almost all of my family has worked in coal mines for generations.

When I was working at the quarry, we built the underground mine there and drained everybodys wells when we got down to 400 ft in the ground. Every one got city water piped to there house compliments of the company.

I also find funny how people want to shut down things because they are destructive to the environment, yet they use the things that are products of the various industries that they are trying to shut down.

Gary Hill · Nov 13, 2012

I will restate the question. Are military personal allowed the RIGHT to vote? Only mentioned Vietnam is because that is the closiest I came to joining..

Gary Hill · Nov 13, 2012

Justin Decker said: ↑

Denise how much do you think things are going to cost when drilling is put out of business and coal fired power plants. I do like the pictures though of the mine pollution, it's funny that they are always pics of mines prior to the legislation we have today. Not saying that accidents don't happen, but I have first hand experience in mining and power plants. For some reason I never saw the things that people claim. Almost all of my family has worked in coal mines for generations.

When I was working at the quarry, we built the underground mine there and drained everybodys wells when we got down to 400 ft in the ground. Every one got city water piped to there house compliments of the company.

I also find funny how people want to shut down things because they are destructive to the environment, yet they use the things that are products of the various industries that they are trying to shut down.

South of where I live by about 30 miles is a huge strip mining operation that has been going on for over 30 yrs..they reclaim the land and make it better than it was and no one has ANY health issues from it?

Western Hill Forge · Nov 13, 2012

david a hall said: ↑

Are yes that Sarah Palin, Strangely alluring in a scary way.

David, I'm really appreciating your opinions and perspective on our political contenders. I have yet to see you post an opinion that I don't agree with. It's interesting to hear from "across the pond". The "scary" comment made me chuckle. I intensely disliked Mitt Romney and his positions. Just didn't think John McCain ( & scary Sarah ) were up th the job. From a "northeast liberal", in case somebody hasn't figured it out yet.

See Denise, I don't always disagree with you.

Regards

Kim Turner · Nov 13, 2012

I like this thread.

Thanks David.

Mikel Dawson · Nov 13, 2012

Gary Hill said: ↑

I will restate the question. Are military personal allowed the RIGHT to vote? Only mentioned Vietnam is because that is the closiest I came to joining..

Yes they are allowed to vote. First they have to apply to their state for a ballot, then it needs to be sent to their location, it is filled out and returned. Sometimes the problems come in the transportation part. But yes all Americans got the right to vote. I voted while in Iraq.

Gary Hill · Nov 14, 2012

Well I know three families whos sons are in the service and not just one branch, NONE got to vote!

Gary Hill · Nov 14, 2012

A father of a Marine had to send gun cleaning kits to his son and his squad...they had none provided them??? OH and they were stationed in Afganistan....??

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