Tom I feel common sense would tell us its much easier to prove someone took the test by eye witness account than defend a case with a lawyer standing there holding the part where you failed... Many test pass at 70% or more the past that are failed are never gone back over...in other words if you fail a section you don't have to go back and retrain I don't think in most cases.. my point is I can't help but wonder if any company is not doing a test after CE i wonder if they have been advised not to..we live in a sue happy country..everyone wanting something for nothing.. often times our best efforts to train people or keep people up to date falls short and comes under fire with others looking for a easy pay day
Eric, what constitutes "formal education" to you, and how did you arrive at "learn to shoe out of a book" from getting ce credits/credentials by attending clinics? thanks Ray
Travis is right, all certs that I hold were graded on the entire test not certain portions, except for practical portion and written which you had to pass both to receive the cert. The companies are not the ones requiring certification, it is there insurance companies mandating it. It puts responsibility on the employee and not the company.
Just like any other school of learning there would be a curriculum to follow. CE (continuing education), how can you give ce when there is no base of education in the first place? You can't continue something you never started. What they are doing is no different than recognizing someone who read a book.
It looks to me that someone is starting something and they are giving ce credit to and for whoever decides to put credibility to the powers that be.... wonder if FarriersForums could get folks to pay for recognition of their................choose a speciality. Regards Ray
I can't help but to agree..the hang up for me is every ce credits seem to come from other shin digs ..afa 20 points and yadda yadda ...to me its a bit laughable to pay a org to keep tally of what clinics I attend ..other than keeping tally what does the new org bring to the table for folks like us..
Hard copy beats eye witness testimony in any court of law. A witness can be bribed or coerced, you can't bribe or coerce a piece of paper or a database. It depends. All of the technology tests I took required 80% to pass and the tests were adaptive with weighted scores. So if you scored low on any section of the test, you automatically got hit with more difficult questions on that section until you either failed that section or got a passing score. Usually if a "company" is doing a test it is specific for certification on their technology. I was in Michaels art store looking for picture frames last week. They have a "certified framer" on staff. I assume that person is an expert with a miter saw, but I really don't give a damned because if the frame doesn't fit the picture or has gaps in the joints, I'm Not going to pay for it even if the guy making the frame has a pHD in finish carpentry from MIT. That's why the AAPF is such a great deal. Without demonstrating any competence, passing any tests, or even providing proof that you have been in business as a farrier, they will grant you full professional status based on your sayso. Then to keep that status, all you have to do is go to whatever clinics they approve every year and send in your dues. Doesn't matter if you actually participate in the clinic as long as you show up. Whether you sleep through the lecture or learn something useful, matters not. You've already bought the credential and all you have to do is go through the motions to mantain the charade. The AAPF makes no effort whatsoever to validate whether or not someone knows which way to turn a nail or how to pick up a foot. They ASSume that if you say you are a practicing professional with X years of experience that you are educated and qualified. So no entry level qualification is required and that begs the question, WHAT is being CONTINUED? How would you feel if somebody in your area decided to hang a shingle tomorrow and by Friday they signed up with the AAPF, printed business cards, and started marketing them-self in your area with the backing and credibility of a "national farrier organization?" That is EXACTLY what the AAPF is doing. They are making it possible for every new kid on the block that wants to short track the road to being a farrier to just buy a fake credential and use it to market them-self to horse owners. AND standing behind that credential is the founders of the AAPF. Farriers that you and I respect for their accomplishments. I don't know about you, but as far as I'm concerned, every on of them has lost my respect.
It looks like they're just following what the vets do. Major difference being vets have formal education before they start continuing education. This group skips formal education and jumps right into CE. IMO, no group will bring anything to the table until they focus on formal education.
The last two groups that tried to do that never got very far. Unless there is a way for somebody to make money creating a formal education system for farriers it will never happen in this country.
In theory I think you could get something rolling but yeah unless somebody stepped in and made it mandatory I don't see it working either.
Well put Tom. Meanwhile, another Farrier at that clinic who has not paid for his AAPF, is sitting on the front row, taking notes, asking questions, jumping into the hands on demos, and finding that what was learned that day changed their knowledge and skill exponentially. All with out spending a cent on papers and letters. Now the next Monday, when a horse owner is questioning which of the above Farriers to hire, who's she gona call? In the long run though that unlettered Farrier is going to get the work based on his work.
i wonder if at this clinic they had to produce pics, video of there work ect in order to gain an extra few letters how would they be goin then
If I could learn to photoshop, I'd be the best Farrier around. The problem with any system is that there are people involved. John has shown us incredibly great work from Ireland that he's done. He's also shown (the before pictures) a bunch of crap, from Farriers who came through the same system. I once came behind a fellow that I admired and learned from. I was rather shocked at the poor job he had done and thought he must have been drunk or something. The client mentioned later that she thought he "had been drinking". I guess each of us are going to be as great or as bad as we let ourselves.
you might get one or two people that will go that route but over this part of the world even in bad times they will go with the quality work
