I really would like to know how he arrived at the 8-10 degree elevation and 54 degree angle. ancedotal or theory or??? I had hoped to hear him lecture at the IHCS a few years ago but it ended up he was not a speaker that year. I'm still thinking on the forces passing through a hollow axis and how it relates to hoof balance. Seems to me if the hoof is not in balance that forces would damage a mechanical center in the horse. ie a coffin joint, loss of density (bone mass) of the center of the coffin bone?
Dealing with two different centers. Coffin joint and associated structures (surfaces) suffer from impact/loading damage, but not the center of P2 - Roony's experiments and much empirical data. Loss of bone mass in the center of P3 is not likely since that would kill the entire bone. Loss of bone mass to the perimeter - think of the blood circulation path and how the lamina is supplied - has an affect on the hoof wall and sole. I've dissected cadavers that were missing the lower half of P3, but still had good bone mass in the center because that blood supply is well protected by the dense bone at the P2/P3 interface. Back to the axle analogy. Tire/rim/bearing/suspension out of "balance" damages the tire/rim/bearing/suspension. The axle center remains undamaged (hey it's hollow for crying out loud!) since it just passes the forces along a line between action and reaction. The farther you get from the center, the greater the potential for damage due to "balance" issues. But weight (pun intended) there's more. Enter the chicken and the egg. Out of balance suspension causes uneven tire wear. Out of balance tires/rims causes suspension damage. So do you just look at tires and rims . . .? This spring I spent $1500 putting upper/lower ball joints on momma's F350. Tires were wearing uneven and the front end alignment didn't change that. The outside of the ball joints was worn, but the centers were just fine.
Await no more. It would depend on the motion of said axle relative to the location of one or more external objects being used as points of reference in the system said axle was included therein. Excluding any and all external reference points that would fix its position and/or provide marker(s) for relative motion, the stand alone axle has no forces 'passing through it'...unless the mechanical center was different from the gravitational center, in which case, gravity would be acting away from the mechanical, if you are hoping to include the bending of space-time as a force in your model. If you assume rotation of the axle, there would be moments created about said center, but there is still no force 'passing through it'...although you could create a deficiency of electrons on one end of the cavity within the axle and a surplus on the other end, then let the static discharge occur...that would be an electromotive force 'passing through it.' ...just in case you were wanting to get all technical, and scientifical, and stuff. Even if The Divinity were to bestow upon us the knowledge and skill set to be able to place a perfect trim and shoe set on a static foot or a dynamic foot, eight hours of mitosis in the coronary corium would wipe the slate. Ideals in farriery are created by our imagination. We all have them, some of us are just more proud of them than others. External references help us keep horse feet in the ballpark of our individual hypothetical ideals...thus the value of Duckett's insight and work. Balance is an imaginable ideal individualized by its beholder. Balance is an opinion, as is the attainment thereof. All the theoretical pragmatism in the world, with no skill set to apply it is as equally worthless as all the skill set in the world with no theoretical pragmatism to give it direction. A balance of both usually results in a 'balanced' hoof. Advancing both theory and skill makes for 'better' balance.
Scruggs, I think Denise is prettier than you, but that is a truly beautiful answer worthy of printing out and framing. Thanks for weighing in, man. I've missed you.
Okay Tom, let's say the bearing on the axle is unable to be replaced without killing the vehicle, then what happens to the axle. I've seen several damaged axles from owner neglect.
I love when Scruggs gets technical! As one of my assiociates, he makes us look GOOD!......... As the "old man" would say, " Your not making a Fking masterpiece, your shoeing the horse for 30 days and starting all over again."
Thanks scruggs good discussion. I have noticed in the last few years that I do not generally use external markers or x rays. I seem to be able to visualize and feel balance. I visited Jaye Perry several years ago and noticed that while every foot that he and his associates prepared was IMO in perfect balance and would have passed at any certification I have attended that only the mind and the eyeball was used. IMO at first while learning we must use science and guidelines to get anywhere near balance. But a person who has mastered the hoof like Jaye or Duckett and other luminaries just see what needs to be done and does it. The mind is a supercomputer and literally millions of variables are probably being considered related to the hoof capsule the body of the horse while static and in motion, the rider, the trainer, the horses job, the weather, and the horses feelings about things as a true master wields his knife, rasp and nippers. So in reality what the beginner precieves as science and craft is really more like a high art a zen like process to the master of the hoof. When Phil Armitage had his big showdown with craig trnka of NB vs traditional farriery IMO the foot that would have passed NB certification was Craigs!!!! Phils would have failed. I view a foot as either balanced or unbalanced. I hate to say this but I know balance when I see it. I have not drawn a line on a foot in years. But I rely on guidelines to teach apprentices but I tell them that someday its going to be an organic process that they use and that guidelines are only training wheels to keep them a reasonable distance away from the blood as they struggle to figure this out. In other words it aint easy folks and there are no shortcuts. If there were everybody would just do their own horses feet and we would be out of a job.
This thread has turned into the best one on a long time IMO. I just have to say Thanks to all of you guys contributing and and sharing the knowledge. Now back into my hole. Keep it coming guys. Regards
No, it is a "joint" venture with the vet and farrier for the horse's welfare. There one goes again with ; "i can shoe it out of them with no help"......
Thank You George for the assiociation w/ Mr. Duckett. I do not deserve the accolade. It was fun when you were here!
We don't often get to see radiographs immediately following our trim. If we had this kind of feedback on a regular basis while developing out personal sense of "balance" do you think that the "eagle eye" would happen sooner?
Yep.......... which is why I paid for all those xrays I got. Trying to get a sense of what's going on inside vs outside.
of circumstance of the case(s), yes. One has to make oneself aviable to be confirmed with the vet's help. Ask Kimmy from Alabama.........damn'it, she posted before i could interject...
One of the most valuable things about all the Gene Ovineck clinics I attended was the presence of vets with Xray machines at them. We always did before and after radiographs of the trimming and shoeing and it was IMO the most valuable thing as it was objective and visual. The opportunity to see if we got the bony column aligned or not was profound and great feedback to the student.
