Explain this this to me

Discussion in 'Everyday Horseshoeing' started by Mr. Perry, Oct 4, 2012.

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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    here are a few pics of a pair of hind shoes that were nailed up by an accreditted, certified farrier w/ 14 years experience(s). pointy toes and fit to heel butresses... is this the 'purchase / shovel thing fad?' Can anyone explain this to me why this application is the "right" thing to do to a horse that jumps meter 1.6? No chaulk holes and the extended toe wall was lopped aproxiamately 1 inch after re-shoeing:



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    brian robertson Active Member

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    Maybe this owner's competitors were paying him off?
    8th horse on a really hot day?
    Ran out of propane & only had a 6lb sledge handy?
    most likely never asked what the horse did for a living....
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    Cody Gilreath Member

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    So let's see how you fixed him up.


    Cody Gilreath, CF

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Layne Member

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    So how did you set him up ?


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    Zach's Horseshoeing Member

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    Need picks of the foot???

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    Chad Rice New Member

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    right hind doesn't look bad to me.. left hind looks like it missed the inside toe and if it fit to the buttress foot was probably high outside... I personally don't mind the pointy toes for purchase just don't understand why people think fitting the toe has anything to do with the peremiter of the foot?

    What did you dislike most Jaye the toe of the shoe or length of heels?
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    I've heard several clinicians (Trnka, Gregory, Luikart) make the assertion that the hind feet rotate down into the ground and dig in like a spade to push the horse. So far I haven't actually seen this phenomenon in any slow motion video - though I've watched a ton of them looking for it.
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    George Spear Member

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    The US army military academy uses a shovel to propel its horse.

    Attached Files:

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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    That explains it.

    I was in the Navy.

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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    pur·chase

    Verb:
    Acquire (something) by paying for it; buy.
    The action of buying

    Tract·tion n.
    1.
    a. The act of drawing or pulling, especially the drawing of a vehicle or load over a surface by motor power.
    b. The condition of being drawn or pulled.
    2. Pulling power, as of a draft animal or engine.


    In these two definitions lies a distinct variant. We buy something or we "draw and pull".

    Horses don't carry an Am EX or purse to move along the footing. They rely upon friction. friction is caused by two surfaces being rubeed together in opposite directions. Thus , "purchase" is a misnomer.
    Thus the more ground a horse has in the initial phases of the stride the more friction is created. This is seen in back feet in most cases with more vertical depth and expansive (wider) heels and qrts than the fronts. IMO, the shape and dimension of the toes of the back feet at dictated by conformation, mechanical issues up the leg from the foot and the mechanic.
    So we have an "Idea" of traction (purchase :rolleyes:) formulated that horses need toes of the back feet to "dig' into the footings. So the mechanic places the shoes at the point of the toe creating an illusion of "purchase:rolleyes:". in so doing they don't realize that with multiple apps the toe elongates and the heels contract. The qrts become straight. This is also compounded by the conformation of the horse and breed.
    Breed for example(s), Warmbloods and Arabs. Both breeds have a tendancy to have extended toe walls or startum externums. Thus fittin' the toe in theses breeds exacerbates the fulcrum processes of the legs and feet.
    Oh, the dressing back retort! How much dressing back of the extended stratum externums does it take to put a foot in proper function. "Shoe set to half of hoof wall is optimum on a foot that is gathered up", Paraphased per Patrick's reasearch.
    So, obtain opitimal 'traction' or 'pruchase' what is to be done? Here are a few pics of an equitation horse with a leggy conformation and a long foot conformation. Warmblood, grows extended stratum externums in all four feet. This what I do to gain friction for more traction with out chaulks. the horse is going to indoors. So as we know a more narrow webbed shoe the more traction or "purchase:rolleyes:" the horse has. These shoes are 20 x 10mm, # 2, pulled back to 1/4 width of the stratum externum and the inner web of the ground surface is ground back to the creases and half width of the toe of the shoe. if one can make a minds eye view of concave/ more vertical depth in those shoes than flats.I don't like concave on hard ground, it get a bit "sticky" . So by just grinding the inner web / ground surface side i have given 10mm or traction in the toe and 20mm of traction in the qrts acros the business end of the foot and have nailed up a mechanically effiencient shoe:

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    sun dance New Member

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    Maybe you need to watch a few more.Try thoroughbreds racing on turf.
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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    Been there done that "T"uk Tard.....Is that all ya got? Shallow at best......


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    Rick Burten Professional farrier

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    Not that I want to be argumentative, but the stratum externum/tectorium is only a few cells thick and is the natural extension of the perioplic epidermis. The stratum medium OTOH is thicker, is derived from the coronary corium, and has two parts, the outermost part which extends half the thickness(or more) of the stratum medium and may be pigmented and the 'zona alba'
    which form the innermost portion of the stratum medium and is unpigmented.....:)
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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    maybe my terminology maybe a bit off Rick... but what I am trying to explore is the 3rd outer layer of the horn as seen in a trimmed foot.....getting old and senile.....
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    sun dance New Member

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    Well if gravity is pulling to the centre of the earth & that gravity gives mass its weight. The force of the limb applied by the weight of the horse & the rotation of that limb in motion. Means the toe can do nothing else but dig in If the molecule structure of the hoof is harder then the surface resistance to that force. Is that suffice an answer of common sense professor.
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    sun dance New Member

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    Tell me professor how that hind hoof on the second pic managed to rotate with out the toe digging in. Did the horse lift that hind hoof straight up in a vertical direction with out it rotating.:confused:I think you need lay off the moonshine for awhile. You seem a bit rattled of late & not your brilliant self.:(
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    sun dance New Member

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    Paraphrased per Patrick's research.:rolleyes: I think that's might be the other half of your problem.
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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    if one would notice a "Toe grab'. To create some friction that is not apparent on turf...... Thus if one would look at the angle of the leg on the imposing impact to the ground and definite structure or nomenclature of opposing frictional forces. Thus none to little of mounding of substate will be introduced into the hoof's solar portion on turf; I.E. traction or "purchase:rolleyes:" has to be applied to the hoof via a toe grab........ again a "shallow " attempt.......:cool:
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    sun dance New Member

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    Well we best sack those employed between races to pack the turf back down after it being dislodged & I will put in a recommendation that jockeys stop wearing goggles when racing on heavy tracks .As there is no risk now of being hit in the face with a sod of turf. ref: them to Jay & Patrick's research.:eek:
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    Mr. Perry Active Member

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    k, you win! watch out for toe grabs bro, they sling a lot o 'shat......:rolleyes:

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