My gelding

Discussion in 'Everyday Horseshoeing' started by Kim Turner, Dec 30, 2012.

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    scruggs1 Active Member

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    Unless someone can prove a change in the rate of mitosis, those cells have to compact on one side...or elongate on the other. I would think a this would be relatively easy to prove histologically.

    I find it very hard to believe the coronary is weight bearing...though I have heard the hypothesis.

    My postulation about why it is not a weight bearing structure:

    1. It is above the laminar leaves so if there were any transfer of weight to it, this would have to mean that the laminae failed in attachment (at least across the surface of P3) in order to allow the transference of force to reach the coronary.

    2. Weight bearing structures are rife with connective tissue...the coronary isn't.

    3. If the coronary accepted load (since it attaches to the extensor and P3 on the posterior side) it would distort the direction of new horn genesis as pushing up on the front side would reposition the papillae.

    ...or at least that's how I understand it at the moment.
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    Kim Turner Master of my own domain

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    According to Xrays P3 is level M/L when trimmed as I have done. Lowering the the lateral side a hair from the medial. I'm still working on the common ground. The way I'm seeing it, from the solar surface I want the shoe even on each side. So that has been tight lateral and a bit full medially.

    I do agree with Tom that I need to extend the shoe a bit more behind.

    And Shane's suggestion of cleaning the sole up better
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    david a hall Moderator

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    I recon that it can alter, many things can affect it and I beleive that localised areas of the capsule could have an increased or decreased nutrient feed, PH value or even temp variations, this I stress is just my thoughts and could be wrong. I also beleive the flaccidity or turgidity of the cells will have a factor. when you get a loss of blood flow in a unilateral side bone there is a significant difference in growth of that aspect of the capsule.
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Get rid of the distorted horn instead of using it for weight bearing.

    If the heel integrity was OK then the bars would be erect and in a straight line instead of compressed foreword in an arch and folded over top of the seat of corn. What do you suppose the internal structures look like in the seat of corn under those folded bars?

    Well then I'm glad that I didn't suggest lowering the angle of P3.

    True, but then you're nailing up a shoe over collapsed and distorted horn.
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    Is the P3 area distribution even on each side relative to the center line?

    Is the center of the DIJ over the center of the centerline of P3?

    Is the M/L axis of the DIJ parallel with the base of P3?

    Or was Rooney on to something?
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    Kim Turner Master of my own domain

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    Support the structures above.

    Same as with the horse with the bowed out hock. I fit him full laterally and he goes well.
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    Eric Russell Active Member

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    If there are no signs of lamess why can't it be used for weight bearing?

    It's on your to explain why you feel something is going on internally when no signs of lameness are showing.


    Trimming the heels is lowering the angle of p3.

    LOL, I'm well aware that good trimming went out the window to lowering the heels until everything looks right.
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    Eric Russell Active Member

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    Feet are generally asymmetrical, for reason's Rooney explains, plus other reasons.

    I'm not about to type several articles about it but there's all sorts of reasons you'd fit full laterally/medially. I think you're a bit confused about it all at this point. maybe others can explain it or link to some articles.
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    Platerforge Guest

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    since you were hurt; why not just leave the horse barefoot for those weeks you wouldnt be able to use the horse. this might have helped the horse. let the horse relax. I'm a farrier; but sometime you need to barefoot:barefoot:

    yes george g.; I know.
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    Kim Turner Master of my own domain

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    I'm not against barefoot. He needs shoes, and I am not working him.
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    Kim Turner Master of my own domain

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    Probably so........ I'm thinking about things like windswept feet. His knees are off set to the outside. He deviates slightly out from the fetlock. The hoof capsule looks like it's shifted over laterally from being centered around the pastern. Also splints are popped.

    So to me it looks like he popped his splints because of the pressure he takes to the inside. And thinking of that makes me believe he likes a little more support there, especially since he's not lame.
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Obviously it is being used for weight bearing and it is falling down on the job.

    Like riding on under inflated maypop tires don't have signs of being flat tires.

    Not always. P3 is not firmly anchored inside the hoof capsule.

    In my opinion good trimming is a strategic proactive process, not a tactical reactive process.
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    Eric Russell Active Member

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    I'm sure he did pop splints from trimming low laterally and adding leverage medially.
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    Kim Turner Master of my own domain

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    The splints were popped before I went to school. So nope wasn't that, and I only lower a hair..... Didn't you see the picture
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    How do you know he didn't pop the splints from whacking himself?

    According to the law Action = Reaction, if you add support to the inside, then you increase pressure to the inside.
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    Kim Turner Master of my own domain

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    Yeah he could have from that. I don't think I'm leveraging him. I've fit full not an extension
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    Eric Russell Active Member

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    Why, is there lameness? Is it underun? Do you have documentation of fixing underun heels?

    Maypop tires isn't much of an explanation as to what you say is going on internally.

    Firmly anchored or not, do you have any documentation which lowering the heels does not decrease the angle of p3, exluding when the tendon doesn't allow it?

    In my opinion, leaving enough heel to get phalangeal alignment and not cause any other problems is good trimming. Lowering heels to get some predetermined ratio off a lateral pic is bad practice.
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    Eric Russell Active Member

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    Given the pics, it doesn't look like it'd be too difficult to pop medial splints. Conformation and pressure probably have more to do with it than whether or not you wen to school yet.

    Your thoughts on pressure seem to be backwards at this point.
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    Any physics text book that describes the concept of distributing force, weight, or pressure over a surface area should be sufficient documentation to support the concept of lowering the heels to increase the surface bearing area of the horn in the heels.

    IME, it doesn't change the orientation of the tubules or the tendency for the heels to run under. But it does spread to load over a larger surface area (a documented scientific fact of PSI) and in the process allows the frog and digital cushion to be more active in weight distribution (further reduction of PSI ought to be obvious to any observer, but apparently some folks will still argue with it).

    In my experience, this provides better phalangeal alignment over the course of a shoeing cycle. The down side of it is that I don't get to see very many bar cracks, quarter cracks, suppurating corns, or cases of chronic caudal foot pain.

    Leaving the heels with the heel bulbs and digital cushion falling out of the back end of the foot and the coronary band jacked up in the quarters also allows the distal end of P2 to drop, the bars to fold over and crack or crush the seat of corn and cause abscesses while at the same time the toe is running forward and dragging the sole with it and reducing vertical depth in the front half of the foot. In my experience that does not provide phalangeal alignment, especially at the end of the shoeing cycle and I stopped doing it after seeing in not work and tried other things until I found something that gave a better result that I could rely on.
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    Tom Bloomer Well-Known Member

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    That's OK, mine are equal but opposite. So it balances out. :D

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